CT4-V CT4VBW vs. Porsche 911 (991 Carrera S) - Am I making a mistake?

[maxm50]

Hey all,
Does anyone here have some ownership experience / seat time in both a CT4V Blackwing and a 991 generation Porsche 911 Carrera? Preferably a 991.1 Carrera S with the 400hp 3.8L NA engine.

I've been fairly set on buying the Blackwing after falling in love over a few test drives. Currently waiting to get an allocation for a new one, and also keeping an eye out for used ones.

My wife, bless her heart, is pushing me to buy something "cooler" (her words) than the Cadillac. She's nudging me to get a 911. To me, a 911 has always been one of those "someday, once in my life" cars. At 37, this is earlier than I expected, but hey, life is short.

I'm driving a few today, and there's one I have my eye on that I would need to make a quick decision on. I'm seeking advice here from anyone else who could give me some insight on both. So far, the only clear wins for the Porsche seem to be the sound (good lord!), and the looks (subjective). I am not sure that it will beat the Blackwing in other areas, because I basically don't trust Porsche fanboys and their inflated sense of 911 superiority. I am hoping to prove to myself if a 911 is really "all that", and I'd love to hear some opinions here.

I love the Blackwing's Jekyll/Hyde personality and its ability to be super comfortable and quiet when wanted, and also a hooligan when wanted. I am worried that the Porsche won't be able to do both extremes as well. I don't think I'd find a better shifter on earth than the Blackwing, and I'm nervous of what the 911's clutch/shifter will feel like. I love how light the clutch is on the Blackwing - even lighter than my old BMW ZHP.

So: If you've driven both or better yet owned both, please let me know your thoughts and what you might do in my situation!

About me and my needs:
- No kids, 38 years old. Occasionally take friends in the car. Back seats are a plus but not an absolute requirement.
- Good income and reserves, but would still cry voluminously if I bent a Porsche wheel vs. wouldn't really care if I bent a CT4V wheel.
- Looking to replace my main commuter, a 2004 BMW ZHP. It's an incredible car but I want something that lights my hair on fire more, while being as comfortable and quiet to commute in (60mi one way mostly freeway, twice a week).
- I accelerate fast but don't speed. I want something that is fun at legal speeds.
- Very comfortable doing my own maintenance.

Other household cars:
- 2004 BMW ZHP (6sp)
- 2019 Mazda Miata Club RF (6sp) - I've been a "miata guy" for 20 years. I bought this hoping I could have one car to do both commuting and sporting duty, but alas, it's just too noisy on the freeway. So I bought the BMW next.
- 1981 Fiat Spider 2000 (5sp)- Cheap old classic I bought for $4200 and revived during Covid.
- 2005 GMC Sierra pickup (auto)- beater for any dirty truck tasks.
- Mustang Mach E (EV) (wife's car) that is our people-hauler when we are driving with others.

 

[maxm50]

Attached here is a pic of the 911 I'm considering.
65k miles Carrera S with a great options list and a rare color, for $76k.

I should have mentioned that my new build of a 4BW would be $69k, and I've been considering cars up to an $80k budget.

A used 4BW at $55-60k would sure be nice, but I'd prefer to not have a sunroof which significantly limits my buying options for used.

 

[CBH]

You should get LOTS of good advice - 911s are popular among BW owners.

I love that blue.

Congrats on the '81 Fiat. My 2nd car was an '81 Alfa Spider Veloce. Coolest name, and coolest shifter. But every time somebody saw it they invariably asked "Is it fast ?"

....And I had to admit the sad truth that you could outrun on foot..........

 

[DCV]

I’ve had both a 4BW and a 991.1 and a 991.2, with 997.1 and 997.2. All manual 4S. Great cars but if something needs fixed or worked on, your gonna pay. All of these 3.8 motors can bore score. The 3.0 turbo motor does not so far. but the maintenance schedule is pricey, every four years plugs, filters, fluid flush and more. It’s expensive as the labor to get all all that stuff, makes costs go up.

If it’s a second car, great. If not then carrying people and things gets hard.

They will hold their value, long as you have all receipts and can prove it’s up to date on maintenance.

I traded a 991.1 C4S for my BW, as I wanted 4 years of warranty and needed space to take things to my house in Mn, a 1200 mile drive.

So get one, have fun, keep it up on maintenance and when you get rid of it, you won’t lose money.

 

[Champale]

I drove a 2012 Carrera S with PDK several years ago (first year of the 991.1). Underwhelming would be the word that comes to mind. Yes, precise and "perfect" but good grief it did not excite me in the slightest.

On the other hand, I drove a 4BW 6sp a week after I took delivery of my 5BW 6sp and thought to myself "uh oh - did I buy the wrong car??" The 4BW is so fantastic to drive - precise, light on it's feet, excellent suspension, etc. Plus, its FUN. And I think the BWs have a cool factor that few other cars have, the If You Know, You Know thing.

 

[668LT4]

I can only reply with thoughts about the wife as I have not driven a 911. Mine wanted me to get a C8 Corvette. "It looks so much cooler and catches the eye".

Exactly why I love my Blackwing. It does not catch the eye like a Corvette or 911.

I do think that 911 you are considering is gorgeous and I will happily admire it should I see it from my Blackwing or any other car.

 

[Lateral G]

Everyone has their subjective opinions on how cars drive. I personally think initial turn-in on a 911 is unlike any other car I've driven. Something about the engine in the back just transforms handling dynamics.

Something that's not subjective: resale values. I'd do some research on the two cars you're considering. Cost doesn't just equal purchase price. Maintenance and selling price play a large role as well.

Good luck, either way you're going to be happy with your purchase.

 

[Roadhawk]

Never owned a 911...but do own and drive a 4BW and a 2004 BMW ZHP - both MT 6 speeds. We picked the ZHP up in Germany new and drove it 1200 miles before shipping it back to the states. I've always said it was the perfect car - balanced, quick, super engaging to drive. In many ways its one of the last more raw oldschool BMWs and a special car whose likes we are not likely to see again. I get why you are looking to upgrade (as ours is starting to feel a bit long in the tooth compared to the newer cars)....but I would consider keeping it - particularly if you pick up a 911.

The 4 BW outperforms the ZHP in pretty much every way. Its a noticeably heavier car )a negative for me) but it is much more clinicaly precise then the ZHP - but I'd still be hard put to say which is more fun to drive....its likely dependent on circumstance. The 4 BW is a very fast car and rewards pushing it. And while its a modern car it does exhibit some old school driving vibes. I'm not sure a new 911 will give you that. It would be a great choice as a ZHP replacement....or like in our case a ZHP compliment. The ZHP is my wife;s daily - though I tend to drive it quite a bit still - particularly for in and around town errands.

I can't say what choice is best for you but I can recommend the 4BW highly. Its a great drivers car and as a sedan has a practicality factor. Its great hard driving and a great long distance cruiser as well. Anyway let us know what you decide.

 

[SML604]

I traded my 997.2 manual in for my CT4BW (6sp); I owned it for 4 years. I concur with a lot of the opinions in this thread. I am also a very similar demographic (40, 1 kid, a few cars in the fleet).

I really loved my 911, but the cost of upkeep was getting to be a bit much. Also, for the 997.2 I was getting tired of waiting of parts that were on back order.

I don't feel like the BW is as special feeling day to day, but it's a better, more modern car that is more comfortable and flexible.

911s are great cars, and they hold their value, but I don't regret selling mine when I did. I do think, however, I will buy another 911 at some point.

 

[conipc]

wanted

I had a 911 GTS and sold it, eventually to get the 5BW. The Porsche was too loud, too low, and too limited for daily use.

 

[DCV]

Note that in the 991.1 year was the first one with electric steering, it’s not that great. Tolerable but not great.

 

[565565]

Damn you turned from 37 to 38 years old during the duration of that post.

Happy birthday!

Honestly I love my Blackwing because it's the fastest and bestest manual sedan ever made and let's me take my two nutsack spawn around. However back when I was childless I bought a C5 Z06 that I still have. If you don't need usable back seats, I'd say don't get them. Go for the 911 now. Especially if you are ever planning to have kids in the future. If you don't get the 911 now it might be a long time before the opportunity comes up again.

Plus your wife wants you to get the 911? That means now you gotta ask for a Lambo.

 

[maxm50]

Damn you turned from 37 to 38 years old during the duration of that post.

Happy birthday!

Honestly I love my Blackwing because it's the fastest and bestest manual sedan ever made and let's me take my two nutsack spawn around. However back when I was childless I bought a C5 Z06 that I still have. If you don't need usable back seats, I'd say don't get them. Go for the 911 now. Especially if you are ever planning to have kids in the future. If you don't get the 911 now it might be a long time before the opportunity comes up again.

Plus your wife wants you to get the 911? That means now you gotta ask for a Lambo.

Haha, good catch! I wrote the whole thing out and then thought "hey wait, I'm 38 actually" and I guess I only corrected one of them. Whoops.

Well I drove a 991.1 Carrera S today (not the blue one, but another similarly spec'd one). 7spd manual. It was a really awesome experience. My two main cars are the BMW and my ND2 Miata. I walked into the porsche dealership this morning with the mindset of finding a replacement for the BMW. But, I actually think the 911 might be a better replacement for the Miata.

911 Pros:
- Holy shit, that engine sound. Good lord. Easily the most glorious sounding engine I have ever driven, if you also have the requirement of it being quiet when you want it. With the exhaust valves closed and driving casually, no one would notice. But open the exhaust up and rev it past 5000 and holy shit, I have never heard such a glorious scream.
- Tons of power. People say you have to rev these things out to get the power, and yeah, it becomes a totally different engine above 5000rpm. But below that, guess what... it's still really impressively powerful.
- Overall just incredibly capable. I got nowhere near to pushing its limits, but jesus, this is a serious machine. I won't go into detail here. But holy crap this thing feels like almost too much car for the road, in a way the 4BW doesn't. I guess this just turned into a con.

911 Cons:
- Tall gearing. It's plenty fast and doesn't need shorter gearing to be faster, but, it's just kindof annoying that you get one redline upshift and then if you do another, you're breaking laws.
- 7 gears. This combines with the long gearing con. Pointless to have so many gears when they are so long, at least for street driving. I was in 1/2/3 around town, then quickly got to 6th on the freeway. Wished 7th wasnt there.
- Shifter not as direct as my BMW (with aftermarket shifter) or the BW.
- Clutch heavier than both BMW and BW, though not objectionably so. I'd get used to it.
- less day-to-day niceties like carplay, usable rear seats, good cupholders, phone charger, backup camera, etc. All that boring stuff that makes a daily driver easier to live with.
- Frunk is spacious but requires a bit of a nerve-wracking and potentially back-injuring lift over your nicely painted front bumper. Also not that easy to open.
- The big one: Definitely louder than my BMW or the BW on the freeway. Engine quiets down nicely, but, tire noise is definitely "moderate". Not quiet. Not the quiet ride of a luxury sport sedan. I guess this should not be a surprise.

At the end of the day, I think the smart move is for me to get the 4BW now to replace the BMW, and then look forward to a 991.1 C2S Cabriolet in the future to replace my Miata. Maybe. Because it's a much more livable car than a Miata... just much less so than a luxury sport sedan.

But man, that engine note has the possibility of making me say "F everything, I'm going for it"...

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

I owned a 991.1 Carrera S (with the ducktail) and I traded it after a year and a half of owning it. I've driven a 4BW at Spring Mountain and own a 5BW and a 991.2 now... so FWIW

1. The shifter is going to be much better in the Blackwing - the 7spd in the 991.1 is probably Porsche's low point

2. The steering feel is going to be better in the Blackwing - the EPAS is not that great and is also probably Porsche's low point

3. The acceleration is going to be better in the Blackwing with more Tq down low

4. The 991.1 will sound more sonorous when you're winding it out

5. The 991.1 will feel more special when you're driving it and will get more attention

6. You'll lose less in depreciation on the 991.1

7. You can't put any non child humans in the backseat of the 911

If I were going for a NA water-cooled 911, I'd be after a 997.2 as that is going to have the hydraulic steering and the sweet 6-speed.

 

[seattlecubes]

I had a 4BW and before getting it, Turo’d a 991 for a long while. For the day to day drive, the Porsche felt…”bored”…and in turn, made the drive kind of “boring.” It was nice to look at but at less than extra legal speeds it was pretty “meh.” I found my 4BW more involving, similar performance wise on the street, and of course, more practical. Still want a 911 some day but it will probably need to be like a Turbo or some crazy/exciting variant like that.

 

[doublethebass]

At the end of the day, I think the smart move is for me to get the 4BW now to replace the BMW, and then look forward to a 991.1 C2S Cabriolet in the future to replace my Miata.

Double upgrade

Go for it

 

[quikag]

For a daily replacement, the 4BW is superior. For weekend fun, 911 is hard to beat. I've had a few (991.2 GT3 and 992 GTS) and they are awesome, but the Blackwings are the total package for a daily car that can be fun when pushed.

Agree with your strategy to replace the BMW with the BW and then the Miata down the road on a 911.

 

[Exia]

I didn't own a .1 but I had a 991.2 C4S manual. Obviously this was when they changed the motor to a turbo away from NA. I sold the car in a month.

I've never driven a .1 but sound is important yo me and its my understanding they do sound great. However these cars are also expensive to maintain if something happens to it.

76k for a used.1 vs a new 4BW is nuts. These are also completely different cars. One is a sports car and the other is currently top two best sport sedans on sale.

Depending on the spec of the .1 the interior can be really bad. My .2 had the base interior but all the performance options and the seats felt like vinyl and the tech was just bad.

If your looking for a daily, the 4BW is the answer. I wouldn't say a .1 makes for a great daily, its less usable, has bad tech and will cost more upfront and long term.

As a weekend car? Sure go .1 but not for a daily.

Or stretch the budget and buy a used 5V Blackwing. Or buy a C7 Corvette. I'd rather own a C7 Z06 or Grand Sport for the same money as a .1 911.

 

[mkr14401]

I’ve had a 997.1, 991.2, and most recently a 992.1 Carrera T. I’ve also had multiple CT4 BWs and currently drive a CT5 BW. I agree that they are completely different cars. The CT4 BW is the better daily driver and certainly more practical. With that being said, even with my 5BW, I miss my 911, which I felt was a more “fun” car to drive, although again, certainly less practical. I’d probably go 4BW over a 991.1.