CT4-V blackwing vs cayman gts 4.0 vs z06

[Escalade_V]

You can get a Z06 anytime now. Plenty for sale at MSRP. Z06 > Cayman > CT4. All excellent vehicles.

 

[beamon]

Longest car I've ever owned, I loved mine and I probably shouldn't have sold it, one of my biggest car regrets. I will be buying another, problem is I'm picky and I can't find the one I want.

Or maybe these manufacturers need to make another 2 seater front engine V8 RWD manual. Its ridiculous these don't exist anymore.

How do you compare c7 z06 manual to ct5-v blackwing manual? Any advantages to either having driven both? Thx

 

[KingMota]

Following thread as a probable future manual BW owner. I own a 2019 Cayman 2.5 GTS (APR tuned to 410 HP / 400 Lb) PDK which I got instead of manual so my wife could drive it. I REALLY regrretted that decision until I added a manual Mini Cooper JCW as a 3rd car. With the manual itch scratched, I can now fully appreciate the awesomeness of the Porsche PDK. Although superior, you will regret if if you don't own at least one manual car.

BTW, my wife NEVER drove the Cayman the first 4 1/2 years until her Audi S7 was in an accident and out of commission for 7 months. The Cayman was her car during that period and she loved it and now drives it occasionally.

Strength of the Cayman is driving through curvy roads. It has great handling. If you enjoy that, get the car. I would not get the car for the engine. As a side benefit, it has great usability for a small two seater with both the trunk and frunk.

Finally, if you are into audio the Burmester option (while expensive) sounds great.

 

[BimmerFan]

How do you compare c7 z06 manual to ct5-v blackwing manual? Any advantages to either having driven both? Thx

I had a non Z06 C7 M7, if that counts. 7 gears is overkill, but it does give you great highway cruising MPG. CT5 is higher effort, heavier clutch, but more direct.

 

[rubberduck]

I had a non Z06 C7 M7, if that counts. 7 gears is overkill, but it does give you great highway cruising MPG. CT5 is higher effort, heavier clutch, but more direct.

I guess it’s all relative. When I drive my Jeep 6-spd for a couple days and go back to my 5BW the clutch and shifter feel like I pushing a feather.

 

[Exia]

How do you compare c7 z06 manual to ct5-v blackwing manual? Any advantages to either having driven both? Thx

The Blackwing transmission is better but the C7 is a sports car, it drives better and handles better.

The Blackwing is a great car but I have no use for a sedan so I prefer the C7. The Blackwing is great because its the best sport sedan on sale but its a sedan, its inherently compromised. I don't need a sedan so I went back to a sports car.

If you need to compromise the Blackwing is the winner but if you can have a dedicated sports car and a good daily, the Blackwing doesn't work out.

 

[savethemanual]

The Blackwing transmission is better but the C7 is a sports car, it drives better and handles better.

The Blackwing is a great car but I have no use for a sedan so I prefer the C7. The Blackwing is great because its the best sport sedan on sale but its a sedan, its inherently compromised. I don't need a sedan so I went back to a sports car.

If you need to compromise the Blackwing is the winner but if you can have a dedicated sports car and a good daily, the Blackwing doesn't work out.

I think there’s more nuance to this.

Especially with how good the alpha chassis is. For example do you consider a Camaro ss 1le a sports car or a regular car as it’s based on the same platform as a sports sedan? I think it’s a sports car based on the lap times we’ve seen it do. It was also heavily favored by most pundits vs the c7 as a better drivers car.

Just because sport sedans have 2 extra doors doesn’t mean they’re not sports cars. The lines have been blurred for a while now.

Lap times from c/d lightning lap-

2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, 2:53.8
2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, 2:54.6
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, 2:54.8

For the bigger engines-
2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 2:44.6
2020 Lamborghini Huracán EVO, 2:45.0
2019 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE , 2:45.0
2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing, 2:49.4

Ps- I have extensively driven a c7, owned a Camaro ss and now a ct4 blackwing and I greatly prefer the alpha bros. Apart from the driving position I can’t think of one thing the c7 does better.

 

[Exia]

I think there’s more nuance to this.

Especially with how good the alpha chassis is. For example do you consider a Camaro ss 1le a sports car or a regular car as it’s based on the same platform as a sports sedan? I think it’s a sports car based on the lap times we’ve seen it do. It was also heavily favored by most pundits vs the c7 as a better drivers car.

Just because sport sedans have 2 extra doors doesn’t mean they’re not sports cars. The lines have been blurred for a while now.

Lap times from c/d lightning lap-

2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, 2:53.8
2023 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, 2:54.6
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE, 2:54.8

For the bigger engines-
2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, 2:44.6
2020 Lamborghini Huracán EVO, 2:45.0
2019 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE , 2:45.0
2022 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing, 2:49.4

Ps- I have extensively driven a c7, owned a Camaro ss and now a ct4 blackwing and I greatly prefer the alpha bros. Apart from the driving position I can’t think of one thing the c7 does better.

A sedan is compromised, its larger and heavier which goes against the point of a sports car.

A sports car is a dedicated vehicle designed for performance, the thrill of driving, not for fitting your family into the backseats. Debating the definition is pointless because everyone has their opinion but a C7 Corvette handles better and performs better then a Blackwing, it sits lower to the ground, its smaller, its wider. It is a sports car and it fits the definition more than a Blackwing.

A Blackwing is a sedan, yes its designed for performance but its also designed for luxury and carrying people. This is why there exists such a thing as a sport sedan. When you want sport car performance but more practicality you buy a sport sedan. However this inherently will make the vehicle not as good performance wise but on a public road you won't notice a difference.

A sports sedan is not a sports car, no matter how great it is. Sports sedans are designed to give you the best of both worlds but never 100% in either category.

A camaro is a pony car but it does heavily lean more towards a sports car. As I stated people come up with their own term for what a sports car is, much like nobody will ever ever give you the proper definition of a supercar. However I would say most people are in a agreement that a 4 door vehicle is not a sports car.

The C7 Z06 handles better, provides a better driving position and gives more sound (thrill) then a Blackwing. I loved my Blackwing but I'd rather take a Z06 down the twisties and to the track and save the Blackwing for driving around public roads where the comfort is more valuable but I still want some thrill.

 

[Orange Whip]

A sedan is compromised, its larger and heavier which goes against the point of a sports car.

A sports car is a dedicated vehicle designed for performance, the thrill of driving, not for fitting your family into the backseats. Debating the definition is pointless because everyone has their opinion but a C7 Corvette handles better and performs better then a Blackwing, it sits lower to the ground, its smaller, its wider. It is a sports car and it fits the definition more than a Blackwing.

A Blackwing is a sedan, yes its designed for performance but its also designed for luxury and carrying people. This is why there exists such a thing as a sport sedan. When you want sport car performance but more practicality you buy a sport sedan. However this inherently will make the vehicle not as good performance wise but on a public road you won't notice a difference.

A sports sedan is not a sports car, no matter how great it is. Sports sedans are designed to give you the best of both worlds but never 100% in either category.

A camaro is a pony car but it does heavily lean more towards a sports car. As I stated people come up with their own term for what a sports car is, much like nobody will ever ever give you the proper definition of a supercar. However I would say most people are in a agreement that a 4 door vehicle is not a sports car.

The C7 Z06 handles better, provides a better driving position and gives more sound (thrill) then a Blackwing. I loved my Blackwing but I'd rather take a Z06 down the twisties and to the track and save the Blackwing for driving around public roads where the comfort is more valuable but I still want some thrill.

We have officially entered Superman vs. Mighty Mouse territory.

 

[MookdocOE]

A sedan is compromised, its larger and heavier which goes against the point of a sports car.

A sports car is a dedicated vehicle designed for performance, the thrill of driving, not for fitting your family into the backseats. Debating the definition is pointless because everyone has their opinion but a C7 Corvette handles better and performs better then a Blackwing, it sits lower to the ground, its smaller, its wider. It is a sports car and it fits the definition more than a Blackwing.

A Blackwing is a sedan, yes its designed for performance but its also designed for luxury and carrying people. This is why there exists such a thing as a sport sedan. When you want sport car performance but more practicality you buy a sport sedan. However this inherently will make the vehicle not as good performance wise but on a public road you won't notice a difference.

A sports sedan is not a sports car, no matter how great it is. Sports sedans are designed to give you the best of both worlds but never 100% in either category.

A camaro is a pony car but it does heavily lean more towards a sports car. As I stated people come up with their own term for what a sports car is, much like nobody will ever ever give you the proper definition of a supercar. However I would say most people are in a agreement that a 4 door vehicle is not a sports car.

The C7 Z06 handles better, provides a better driving position and gives more sound (thrill) then a Blackwing. I loved my Blackwing but I'd rather take a Z06 down the twisties and to the track and save the Blackwing for driving around public roads where the comfort is more valuable but I still want some thrill.

Yes, and when you get older and want that sports car "Feel" without the sports car "annoyances" which there are many you start valuing the Sport Sedan for what it's worth. As long as it's reasonably priced which is now seemingly not the case with these "Saloons"

 

[Roadhawk]

A sedan is compromised, its larger and heavier which goes against the point of a sports car.

A sports car is a dedicated vehicle designed for performance, the thrill of driving, not for fitting your family into the backseats.

A Blackwing is a sedan, yes its designed for performance but its also designed for luxury and carrying people. This is why there exists such a thing as a sport sedan. When you want sport car performance but more practicality you buy a sport sedan. However this inherently will make the vehicle not as good performance wise but on a public road you won't notice a difference.

A sports sedan is not a sports car, no matter how great it is. Sports sedans are designed to give you the best of both worlds but never 100% in either category.

I can't disagree with this. However - some sports sedans are plenty good enough to give you perhaps (in some cases maybe) 9/10s of what you might get in an actual (true) sports car. This is particularly true with just how good some of these cars have gotten (and perhaps how compromised from the ideal some so-called true sports cars of today are as compared to the ideal of the past).

For me - a "true" sports car is small, light and nimble. Most modern cars - even so-called "sports" cars are overly large and heavy. I get it why a Vette is still a sports car - even with the size and weight....but its no Miata. In many ways the Vette is closer to a sports sedan then it is to the ideal of a sports car of old. Just my take anyway. Not taking anything away from the performance or experience.

And I've had experiences in my old Audi (wagon) - where I've outdone (flat out passed and beat) Porsches in high speed mountain twisties (that were trying their not good enough best) where you couldn't convince me that I wasn't driving a sports car (or wasn't a sports car driver)...and the other drivers would've probably also agreed...I've also humbled speedbikes in my GTI on the very same roads. Is my GTI a "sports car"? I kind of think that it is....in some sense anyway...

 

[savethemanual]

A camaro is a pony car but it does heavily lean more towards a sports car.

Your (very subjective) take, and this is not the first time I have seen this is if it has 2 doors it’s a sports car and if it has 4 it can’t be a sports car.

The Camaro and the ct4 blackwing are on the same exact platform(the blackwing is actually a newer version of it) and on every dimension including wheelbase and height are within a few inches of each other.

So beyond the form factor what’s the difference? The lap times and every other objective metric are almost identical.

 

[savethemanual]

This is particularly true with just how good some of these cars have gotten (and perhaps how compromised from the ideal some so-called true sports cars of today are as compared to the ideal of the past).

Bingo!

This is especially true talking of the c8. They took a huge step towards full on super car by going mid engined. But things like adding understeer and designing around the stupid golf club requirement are such maddening compromises.

 

[cab777]

Just a couple more data points - I test drove a 991.2 C2S and a 718 GT4 this weekend. Having never driven a 911 before, it really surprised me, and overall not for the positive. I was considering it as a replacement DD for the 4BW, but the steering and shifter both felt worse overall, and although it probably is a bit faster, didn't really feel that different overall. Don't get me wrong, it felt great and this is all nitpicking, but I walked away with zero reason to "upgrade" other than my ADHD with wanting to jump around into different cars. The GT4 on the other hand felt amazing, but of course that isn't a direct replacement. All of this to say, you can read and watch everything you want, but there is no substitute for test driving cars. Overall the experience just made me appreciate even more how great the 4BW feels, and at this point I'd likely either just get a new one when needed (or maybe for that new green color ) or just upgrade to the 5BW.

 

[Roadhawk]

Bingo!

This is especially true talking of the c8. They took a huge step towards full on super car by going mid engined. But things like adding understeer and designing around the stupid golf club requirement are such maddening compromises.

If I were to buy a "true" sports car now (and if my wife would let me)...it would be an M roadster (which can be had for quite reasonable $) or a second gen MR2...both cars from the 90s. An early gen Caymen or Boxster might al;so fit the bill...but I'm really not lusting after anything from the last 20 years....not saying there aren't fun cars to be had out there...but none that really get me going like those two. In the meantime I'm quite enjoying the CT 4 V BW....as well as my other cars...all fun in their own ways...

 

[MookdocOE]

Just a couple more data points - I test drove a 991.2 C2S and a 718 GT4 this weekend. Having never driven a 911 before, it really surprised me, and overall not for the positive. I was considering it as a replacement DD for the 4BW, but the steering and shifter both felt worse overall, and although it probably is a bit faster, didn't really feel that different overall. Don't get me wrong, it felt great and this is all nitpicking, but I walked away with zero reason to "upgrade" other than my ADHD with wanting to jump around into different cars. The GT4 on the other hand felt amazing, but of course that isn't a direct replacement. All of this to say, you can read and watch everything you want, but there is no substitute for test driving cars. Overall the experience just made me appreciate even more how great the 4BW feels, and at this point I'd likely either just get a new one when needed (or maybe for that new green color ) or just upgrade to the 5BW.

My first experience in a Porsche was total disappointment. Then when you weigh the price comparisons and ownership, maintenance costs? Really, not even a comparison but hey it says Porsche right?

 

[beamon]

If I were to buy a "true" sports car now (and if my wife would let me)...it would be an M roadster (which can be had for quite reasonable $) or a second gen MR2...both cars from the 90s. An early gen Caymen or Boxster might al;so fit the bill...but I'm really not lusting after anything from the last 20 years....not saying there aren't fun cars to be had out there...but none that really get me going like those two. In the meantime I'm quite enjoying the CT 4 V BW....as well as my other cars...all fun in their own ways...

M Roadsters are fun cars…had two S52 examples back in the day and later an S54 coupe but roadster was great open top experience with manual transmission, very reasonable price point too.

 

[Roadhawk]

M Roadsters are fun cars…had two S52 examples back in the day and later an S54 coupe but roadster was great open top experience with manual transmission, very reasonable price point too.

Back in the day the owner of the shop I used had an M coup (S52) he would frequently let me use as a loaner car....it was great fun. Once he proposed a trade for my Audi S4 but I was unwilling.

I joined a Fiat forum a bunch of years back in anticipation of the Abarth 124 that I thought might be my next fun car...turned out to be a big disappointment (weak sauce).

I've longed for another 2 seat fast little sports car to replace the Supercharged 1st gen MR2 I had back in the day (most fun in a car ever). I wanted something quicker then a Miata. I had considered a Boxster...but the cost of Porsche ownership concerned me. I was also potentially interested in an Audi TTRS (when they were MT)...but it was a bit heavy with front biased AWD so it never exactly fit the bill.

The Z4 M convertibles (as nice as they are) always seemed a bit too porky for me....so yeah M roadster. I'd buy one now if the wife would allow it (and right now there is no way she would)....too bad....my kind of fun. S54 for the power (but more reliability issues it seems)....so S52 is fun and fast enough. Maybe I should send the Topher an email....he has one with a Dinan Stage 1 package that looks great and is potentially for sale. Shame its not happening...