PSA: Setting Expectations - Condition of your paint may disappoint you, but a paint correction/ceramic coat and a good detailer will fix your problem.

[Snowwolfe]

Ok, I need to know how many of you guys that is doing a first time color correction on the BW? I guess this is not a big deal to me because I have it done on all my cars.......

.
If you guys don't like the outcome don't purchase the car,
That may make sense if you are buying a car off the lot that you can inspect before buying it. Not for a order that many wait months or even a year or more for the car to be delivered and you ordered it sight unseen.

I don't get it... I would not blame Dustin if he went dark after all this....
I don’t get why he even posted it. Should of been handled one on one with the customer placing the order. He put himself/dealer in a weird situation saying they basically wouldn’t help the customer get warranty work Cadillac promised in writing. In other words, we want to make a huge profit off you but then dont let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. At least that is how it comes across to me. I don't blame Dustin, he was probably just doing what he was told.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

Ok, I need to know how many of you guys that is doing a first time color correction on the BW? I guess this is not a big deal to me because I have it done on all my cars....... If you guys don't like the outcome don't purchase the car, I don't get it... I would not blame Dustin if he went dark after all this.... I heard a guy say one time that some people would complain if they were hung with a new rope...

Why would Dustin "go dark" after this? I'm not criticizing him and I don't think anyone else is either.
Also I don't think anyone in this thread is talking about minor paint defects that all new cars have. I do my own polish/wax of every new car that I get. We are talking about totally effed up paint such as shown in the car Dustin linked in the original post. In my mind that is a clear warranty issue.

 

[rubberduck]

Ok, I need to know how many of you guys that is doing a first time color correction on the BW? I guess this is not a big deal to me because I have it done on all my cars....... If you guys don't like the outcome don't purchase the car, I don't get it... I would not blame Dustin if he went dark after all this.... I heard a guy say one time that some people would complain if they were hung with a new rope...

Never done one if my life. Doesn't do much to add resale value to a vehicle IMO. The car is doing to get dents and scratches if it is used. I also don't send my worn Rolex's in to get the scratches removed. But, this is only the third GM vehicle I have bought new and the other two were trucks. I don't know of anyone that goes color correction on a PU.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

I'm not sure how many warranty repairs you've had but the promise of reimbursement comes BEFORE the work is performed, which brings us back to the timetable of waiting. It also brings us back to the customer buying the car before the dealer can reach out for reimbursement. To my knowledge, it cannot be called a warranty repair until a warranty is active, which isn't until after the vehicle is delivered

Ok, that's a good point. In the case where a car arrives with totally effed up paint, I would expect the dealership to act as the customer's advocate and say "we will get this handled as a warranty repair". Just like a good dealership will do with any other defect that should be covered by warranty.

Let's say the car arrives with a broken ABS sensor and the check engine light is on. No question the dealership submits a warranty repair to GM and gets it taken care of before delivery. Why is effed up paint any different? The warranty language posted above is very clear that paint damage that occurs between when the car is produced and when the car is delivered to the dealership is covered.

The issue is what happens when the defect can't be corrected by just detailing, and a panel or area needs to be repainted? I think then it becomes a question of whether the customer doesn't want to accept the car. But it still needs to be fixed by the dealer or dealer's body shop and covered by warranty.

 

[Ivy1Le]

Ok, that's a good point. In the case where a car arrives with totally effed up paint, I would expect the dealership to act as the customer's advocate and say "we will get this handled as a warranty repair". Just like a good dealership will do with any other defect that should be covered by warranty.

Let's say the car arrives with a broken ABS sensor and the check engine light is on. No question the dealership submits a warranty repair to GM and gets it taken care of before delivery. Why is effed up paint any different? The warranty language posted above is very clear that paint damage that occurs between when the car is produced and when the car is delivered to the dealership is covered.

Because warranty repairs are not clear and concise. The manual says one thing, GM will say another. ABS Sensor and a check engine light. Obviously not something that can be blamed on anyone, it gets fixed you move on.

As evidenced by the many responses we got here that say "it's no big deal" I fully expect GM to have that same attitude, I would expect them to want to have someone come inspect the car, see the dealers wash process, go inspect other cars at the holding lot.. yada yada so on and so forth. It won't be an easy thing, which Dustin already mentioned. Then he also mentioned GM will likely want a full respray because it would be easier in their book. So even if you win that warranty fight you still lose.

 

[Neveready]

Orange peel is unacceptable because it’s in the base layer and is almost always the result of a poor paint process.

You can’t polish out orange peel unless you polish through the clear and into the layer that has the peel.

What was said above about Audi paint is 100% correct. The same process is used for a $35k and $165k car. At GM, it’s the process that’s flawed.

The reality is that every manufacturer from Hyundai to Ferrari engineer a certain amount of orange peel. Yes, there are some manufacturers that have less orange peel but it's still there. To me, its more noticeable on darker colors, whites and silvers tend to show less orange peel.

I've tried to research why manufacturers implement this and I've found several answers:

-Eco friendly chemicals used in most auto paint.

-Lower production costs. Orange peel hides sheet metal imperfections. Wetsanding paint is labor intensive and no manufacturers seem to have machines to correct this. It also requires more layers of paint, as you have to wetsand and spotcheck the work, ensuring it's correct under various lighting conditions for each layer. We're talking hours and hours of additional labor.

-The more polishing done on the clearcoat, the thinner it is. Less clearcoat, less paint protection in the real world.

-Orange Peel hides imperfections that can happen to daily drivers such as scratches, dings, pitting and chips. That is why there is always more orange peel on rocker panels.

I think what's most important is that the orange peel and paint thickness is consistent. Fish eyes and paint drips are a bigger pet peeve.

 

[Tall Steve]

Never done one if my life. Doesn't do much to add resale value to a vehicle IMO. The car is doing to get dents and scratches if it is used. I also don't send my worn Rolex's in to get the scratches removed. But, this is only the third GM vehicle I have bought new and the other two were trucks. I don't know of anyone that goes color correction on a PU.

LOL, I have several times, I take great pride in driving a clean perfectly polished car daily.... I don't care if it's a truck or a car.. I hated cleaning my GMC Denali 2500 weekly but I did and it looked flawless.......

 

[Tall Steve]

I'm sorry that I don't get it guys and will not comment anymore but if all this bothers y'all this much don't purchase the car...

 

[srothman]

Just wanted to share my very own paint-related issue on my 4BW. I ended up running over to my local body guy who carefully cut out the drip (it was actually flaking) and clear coated it. It's not noticeable with the trunk closed so I'm not overly jazzed. I'm also getting the whole car PPF'd as we speak so the lip will be even better protected.

All's well that ends well as they say. The car is pretty spectacular by the way.

View attachment 20220617_124149.jpgView attachment 20220618_090804.jpg

 

[1StunnaV]

.
If you guys don't like the outcome don't purchase the car,
That may make sense if you are buying a car off the lot that you can inspect before buying it. Not for a order that many wait months or even a year or more for the car to be delivered and you ordered it sight unseen.

I don't get it... I would not blame Dustin if he went dark after all this....
I don’t get why he even posted it. Should of been handled one on one with the customer placing the order. He put himself/dealer in a weird situation saying they basically wouldn’t help the customer get warranty work Cadillac promised in writing. In other words, we want to make a huge profit off you but then dont let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. At least that is how it comes across to me. I don't blame Dustin, he was probably just doing what he was told.

You’re not happy with the wrong person/entity here….

I like to sleep well at night, on a nice comfy expensive mattress. My recipe for making enough to afford an absurdly overpriced mattress and be able to sleep well is being transparent, honest and setting expectations properly.

I’d rather have 50% of my customers decide not to purchase because I was open an honest than mislead even 1 customer. The problem is, most dealerships/salespeople don’t feel this way. Being transparent and honest to your customers, even when it jeapodizes losing business is 100% okay in my book.

You’re upset at the situation and you have 100% right to be. I’m not happy about it either. It’s disappointing.

Again, we are doing our best to set expectations properly for something we have zero control over. If we are telling customers in advance, prior to their order being placed, that it could end up “this way,” there’s no surprises and we set expectations properly.


Lastly, I will repeat that we have been in discussion (not me personally) with GM/Cadillac and they are genuinely concerned, actively investigating and doing whatever they can to fix this. I have full faith in GM/Cadillac that this will be resolved as quickly as reasonably possible.

They can’t fix a problem if they don’t know it exists. Now they know and are already stepping up to the plate.

 

[668LT4]

Again, we are doing our best to set expectations properly for something we have zero control over. If we are telling customers in advance, prior to their order being placed, that it could end up “this way,” there’s no surprises and we set expectations properly.

1 million % agree. The dealer does not control the manufacturing. It is the salesperson's job to set the expectations of the product. What seems to be missing here is many Blackwing buyers have never owned a GM product. So every review that praises how these cars are 20-30k less than competitors fails to mention where some of the savings come from. I have owned almost 10 GM trucks and cars now. 0 of them would have passed a cosmetic quality inspection from my eyes at the factory. Exterior panel alignment is always an issue. Misaligned doors (front driver on my 4, photo below), hoods, trunk panels. Interior materials are not as nice and do not fit together as well as other brands. So each buyer needs to decide if things are good enough to own or not. Good to hear Cadillac is being made aware of paint issues and working to improve. And thanks to honest dealers like Sewell who sell the right way.

 

[rubberduck]

The thing that strikes me the most is the statement. They (GM) can’t fix a problem that they don’t know exists. What do the QC people do over there, play video games all day? Assuming this is not the case, The QC problem is coming from management direction to ignore certain defects. Then the real problem is management directives, and that’s a cultural mentality that’s going to be hard to change.

Being accustomed to German cars, I’m a little shocked about the lack of concern about this production process, But, I’ll just take what I get with my 5BW and make appropriate accommodations. My eyesight isn’t as good as it once was so it probably won’t be an issue. I’ll ask the detailer to not point out the flaws to me. That way it could takes years before I discover them on my own.

 

[Tall Steve]

The thing that strikes me the most is the statement. They (GM) can’t fix a problem that they don’t know exists. What do the QC people do over there, play video games all day? Assuming this is not the case, The QC problem is coming from management direction to ignore certain defects. Then the real problem is management directives, and that’s a cultural mentality that’s going to be hard to change.

Being accustomed to German cars, I’m a little shocked about the lack of concern about this production process, But, I’ll just take what I get with my 5BW and make appropriate accommodations. My eyesight isn’t as good as it once was so it probably won’t be an issue. I’ll ask the detailer to not point out the flaws to me. That way it could takes years before I discover them on my own.

I think you would be happier going German and not getting a Cadillac.... I don't know why you want one anyway?

 

[MattH]

The thing that strikes me the most is the statement. They (GM) can’t fix a problem that they don’t know exists. What do the QC people do over there, play video games all day? Assuming this is not the case, The QC problem is coming from management direction to ignore certain defects. Then the real problem is management directives, and that’s a cultural mentality that’s going to be hard to change.

Being accustomed to German cars, I’m a little shocked about the lack of concern about this production process, But, I’ll just take what I get with my 5BW and make appropriate accommodations. My eyesight isn’t as good as it once was so it probably won’t be an issue. I’ll ask the detailer to not point out the flaws to me. That way it could takes years before I discover them on my own.

I would imagine the people that work in QC work in QC, because thats the department they were told to work in when they showed up for their first day, like any other factory job. IMO QC should be veteran employees who actually give a shit and have some pride in their job and the finished product.

Disclaimer: I am in no way saying that GM has employees working for them that don't give a shit.

 

[strohw]

Disclaimer: I am in no way saying that GM has employees working for them that don't give a shit.

At this point, I'm quite confident that nearly every company has employees working for them that don't give a shit.

 

[rubberduck]

I think you would be happier going German and not getting a Cadillac.... I don't know why you want one anyway?

Because I live in a ghetto and my AMG didn’t blend in well.

 

[strohw]

Because I live in a ghetto and my AMG didn’t blend in well.

Buy one of these: 2007-2014 Cadillac Escalade Front Grille Emblem by Cadillac 22985035 GM OEM Part | eBay and tape it over the Merc badge.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Lastly, I will repeat that we have been in discussion (not me personally) with GM/Cadillac and they are genuinely concerned, actively investigating and doing whatever they can to fix this. I have full faith in GM/Cadillac that this will be resolved as quickly as possible

If GM was that concerned then they would honor their written statement these defects were covered by warranty and they (GM) would pay for the paint correction.

 

[malakas]

You’re not happy with the wrong person/entity here….

I like to sleep well at night, on a nice comfy expensive mattress. My recipe for making enough to afford an absurdly overpriced mattress and be able to sleep well is being transparent, honest and setting expectations properly.

I’d rather have 50% of my customers decide not to purchase because I was open an honest than mislead even 1 customer. The problem is, most dealerships/salespeople don’t feel this way. Being transparent and honest to your customers, even when it jeapodizes losing business is 100% okay in my book.

You’re upset at the situation and you have 100% right to be. I’m not happy about it either. It’s disappointing.

Again, we are doing our best to set expectations properly for something we have zero control over. If we are telling customers in advance, prior to their order being placed, that it could end up “this way,” there’s no surprises and we set expectations properly.


Lastly, I will repeat that we have been in discussion (not me personally) with GM/Cadillac and they are genuinely concerned, actively investigating and doing whatever they can to fix this. I have full faith in GM/Cadillac that this will be resolved as quickly as reasonably possible.

They can’t fix a problem if they don’t know it exists. Now they know and are already stepping up to the plate.

The way I see it, you represent your customers, your community, your profession, and your brand.

For full transparency, are you stating with this thread that GM, if presented with a warranty claim, would not correct the defects present in the photos shared herein under their stated warranty? If they would then say so as right now your statements imply they would not. This is troubling to me as someone who has waited a long time for one of these cars and now finally has an allocation. Your implied message so far goes against GM's stated warranty which is cause for concern. I have owned a number of GM vehicles and have never had an instance where a claim was not honored. Your statements as a dealer representative cast doubt on the manufacturer's current commitment to upholding their warranty and are damaging to Cadillac as a brand.

If GM would cover this sort of damage, then I think it's important to directly state that here so the conversation can be focused on what those remedies, depending severity, would be. Then, on a case by case basis, a buyer if confronted with this (which most will not) could decide whether to accept GM's proposed remedy, remedy the car themselves, or walk. To start the conversation with a recommendation that a client pre-emptively purchase a remedy which is not necessary if the manufacturer upholds their warranty seems disingenuous. I can see how in an extreme case a client may not like the remedy offered by GM but in those cases I question what GM would do if someone tried to remedy the car themselves first and failed. I think they would have grounds to deny a claim if a customer's remedy was not performed by an authorized facility based on the manufacturers recommendation. So in short, I see the options as have GM fix the car or walk if you don't like their proposed fix and your solution as jeapordizing the warranty claim. Please let me know if I am mistaken and if this logic is flawed.

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I'll report back how my dealer inspection Tuesday goes.

Everyone who has seen the unpainted hood edge and gap said its above and beyond.

I have had tons of GM products. I'm not hearing what's acceptable, I've accepted plenty. Visible primer from standing next to the car...no, not acceptable.