PSA: Setting Expectations - Condition of your paint may disappoint you, but a paint correction/ceramic coat and a good detailer will fix your problem.

[flipray]

In my case, I acknowledge this and went in eyes-open -- even with ADM these cars are great value and like nothing else you can buy new in the market right now. However, it seems like GM is genuine in its wish to make Cadillac a premium brand on par with Ze Germans, and it boggles the mind that US manufacturers are unwilling to go the extra 10% to make that happen.

You guys need to temper your expectations

The 5BW is sprayed on the same line that all the other CT5 are which if anyone forgets, is a $37k car. Which is the same price BMW charges for their 2 series. Not only that but if any of you have sat in a base model CT4 or CT5 and then sat in various competitors cars that cost the same...you'll quickly realize the $34k CT4 and $37k CT5 are over priced.

You have to take them for what they are, low 30K cars that have 30-70k worth of performance parts and R&D put into them. There's nothing wrong with that but it's what it is.

I feel like both your comments just gives Cadillac/GM a free pass. You're still paying for a $100K car, regardless of the cost of the base model. Paint on these cars are absolutely horrible with blobs on edges, sunroof openings, trunk and hood undersides. Like GM isnt even trying to QA the damn paint and just pushing cars out...

 

[Commonman]

Google "C8 shipping pictures". If GM would cover the Blackwing's like this I would think they would do better sitting outside for months at a time. GM also finished a new paint shop in 2017 for corvette for $439 Million. Not sure if every C8 is near perfect but at least GM knew they had a problem and tried to fix it. The paint on my C8 is gorgeous. Thank you Dustin for keeping this group well informed. This has to be a tough note to write concerning a product you love and represent. As a potential buyer it is a sobering thought to spend 100k on a new car with what appears to be "acceptable" flawed paint from factory. Hopefully they can improve the process by the time I get to order one.

 

[sethsquire]

As far as I know mine didn't sit outside very long. The paint does have some fine scratches but I would chalk it up to the dealer washing it, and I would polish them out if I wasn't going in for PPF and ceramic since the detailer will do it for me.

As far as imperfections, there is one cloudy spot on the hood about the size of a silver dollar that looks as if maybe some moisture might have messed with the clearcoat during the paint process. I'm hoping that comes out, there's also a small dark mark maybe half an inch long under the driver mirror, no idea what the hell that's about, but hoping it polishes out as well.

 

[strohw]

I am sorry but this argument, which I have seen repeatedly, simply doesn't hold water. Either you have a world class paint process or you don't.

For this to be true, I should not be able to provide examples of manufactures who have better paint on more premium products in their line up. But unfortunately that's not the case and I can. While I agree it shouldn't happen it's obvious that it does. Everything revolves around cost and some of them have apparently decided cost does equal a certain level of quality. Others cut costs else where and Audi apparently does it in their reliability.

I feel like both your comments just gives Cadillac/GM a free pass. You're still paying for a $100K car, regardless of the cost of the base model.

But it's not. You have a cheaper vehicle with all this stuff done to it. The manufacturer isn't going to go out of their way to do anything different...which they haven't. In a normal situation the product wouldn't sell. People would look at it and say it was overpriced and the quality was poor. But then they offer something that no one else does and the customer is trapped in the decision that the quality isn't quite there but they have no other options. Hence my statement on expectations...and it doesn't just apply to the paint. Imagine how much less interest this vehicle would have had if BMW never got rid of the manual out of their M5 or Merc from their c/e 63?

As far as imperfections, there is one cloudy spot on the hood about the size of a silver dollar that looks as if maybe some moisture might have messed with the clearcoat during the paint process.

My car had 3 3" circles like that on it and they all buffed out.

 

[sethsquire]

My car had 3 3" circles like that on it and they all buffed out.

Good to know! If it wasn't going to the detailer anyway I'd grab a foam pad and a drop of compound right now and try it myself.

 

[PrimeTime]

My issues are AFTER paint correction, imperfections were found still. I also had two SMALL dings taken out by PDR.

What I learned is, they all have them to some degree.

I found out my car had an spec of dust in the clear that was polished out during initial post paint inspection. I had found 3 more little dust specs and they admitted sometimes they can get missed because different light sources can reveal different issues.

So I felt better. But I still want to have my dealer inspection to see if they think its enough to see if GM will cover a polishing out of the flaws.

My rear wheel well/arch down by the rear door/passenger side has kind of the lumpiest section of the clearcoat. This weekend, I got to see a Dustin car by a guy named Tim from the MIlford Proving Grounds in the same orange. I was told Blaze is a really challenging color to get right. Sure enough, that car had similar flaws at the lip of the wheels arch.View attachment 9792

Beautiful color...

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Orange peel is unacceptable because it’s in the base layer and is almost always the result of a poor paint process.

You can’t polish out orange peel unless you polish through the clear and into the layer that has the peel.

What was said above about Audi paint is 100% correct. The same process is used for a $35k and $165k car. At GM, it’s the process that’s flawed.

 

[Blackwing61]

Seems like a lot of first time GM buyers here.

Mine has a lot of blemishes in the paint but so did all of the GM/Cadi vehicles I’ve had. I’ll take it over the other shortcomings from the German manufactures.

 

[jonnywaffles11]

There's so much dirt on my car I can't even see the paint. Hopefully going to start slowly peeling away 3 months of debris and see how bad it is tmw

 

[malakas]

The part of my job that I don't love to do...... Disappoint my customers and it this case, everyone else's customers as well.... However, I do always want to be transparent and set expectations properly...

As these vehicles sit for months in the land of the goats, the clearcoats/finish take a beating. I posted several photos of a couple of the last CT5-V's that have showed up, below...

Whether its from the weather, rail dust blowing in the air or being improperly washed prior to being shipped out, or all of the "above," its disappointing that a brand new vehicle would show up like this. While it doesn't make it better, my research, talking to people who work sell other brands, including even Ferrari, are having many of the same types of issues.....

A new process needs to be found. We are documenting every single vehicle that comes in. Photos before the shipping wraps are removed to photos/videos after and working directly with the manufacture showing them the problems on them and how much it cost's to get the vehicle back to a condition that is acceptable or better.

Keep in mind that while it is not the fault of the customer, it's also not the fault of the dealer. Please do not be upset with your dealer if your vehicle arrives in a condition similar to those seen below. Not every car shows up in this shape and its been more prevalent on the CT5-V Blackwings than the CT4-V Blackwings as the turn around time on the 4's has typically been less.

In the event a vehicle shows up in this condition, you should expect a $1500-$3,000 paint correction cost if the vehicle is a light color and $2,500-$5,000 if the vehicle is Black Raven.

Moving forward, until this problem is resolved, all customers that have an order with me who have Black Raven as there exterior color choice will be required to sign a document stating that they have been notified of the current production/manufacture problem and that if they decide to move forward with Black Raven , the understand that a paint correction/ceramic coat will likely be needed in order to bring the vehicle to the condition they expect or should be.

To be clear, we will not be forcing any customers to purchase a paint correction/ceramic coat, however, we will not be providing it at no charge either. All customers will have the choice to cover the paint correction/ceramic costs or not purchase the vehicle. Should a customer not want to take possession of their vehicle because they do not want to purchase a paint correction/ceramic coat, we will work with Cadillac on trying to expediate a new order, however, there is no guarantee that it will be fast or that it wouldn't be the same on the next vehicle..

For any vehicle is not purchased by the original ordering customer, we will apply a paint correction/ceramic coat and then make the vehicle available for purchase to another customer who has an order in with us. The cost of the paint correction/ceramic will be added to the vehicle's final purchase price.

We have been successful in bringing the vehicles to better factory condition with the paint correction/ceramic. Regardless of condition from the factory, my personal opinion is that a full paint correction/ceramic should be a requirement on any Black exterior vehicle as its a completely different car afterwards...

I recommend that everyone here take a look at @Kimkeys99 's post by clicking here. It includes before/after photos /video.... The photos of the black vehicle below were his...

I am unsure at this time if we will take orders for the future limited Maverick Noir Frost as you would not be able to correct issues like this without a full repaint. I have high hopes and feel confident that GM will be able to get this issue resolved in a timely manner. Its been a challenge for all manufactures for the past couple years and they just need to find a new process / adapt to make sure this doesn't continue to happen. I know they care greatly but you cant fix a problem if you don't know it exists.... We have made them aware.. I will do my best to update you all on any progress made..





View attachment 9787

Call me a cynic Dustin but I'm having a hard time understanding why a customer should pay for this corrective treatment and why the proposed solution is a dealer add on that I assume isn't offered at cost.

I've purchased roughly 40 new cars in my lifetime and never saw anything close to what you've photographed here. I have purchased from a wide range of manufacturers and prices and have universally found minor paint/clear imperfections or fitment issues. My BMWs have generally been the best in build quality but still had minor flaws. I never expect a completely flawless car but I can't imagine a dealer placing a car in this condition out for delivery with a straight face. I also can't imagine GM being shown these photos and telling a dealer they are SOL and to fix things on their dime.

I used to sell Fords a long time ago and transit damage issues were covered under warranty. Why is this any different? GM doesn't get a 100k hall pass and I can't imagine a dealer, who is in essence a reseller, accepting inventory in this condition to resell without filing a damage claim.

I've purchased a dozen or so new GMs over the years and while their build quality is not on par with BMW, none of my GM's had what I would consider major flaws on delivery. The worst build quality I've experienced has repeatedly been from Ford. Most recently it was on a GT350 which had panel fitment issues that were corrected post delivery under warranty. I also had a cobra mustang from a long time ago, also with panel fitment issues that was also delivered with the clutch installed incorrectly. That car required a clutch replacement which normally isn't warranted but was in this case as they were able to determine the car wasn't abused. I've just never seen a manufacturer not make good on their failure to present a car in what the general population would consider "new" condition.

Page 19 of the 2022 Cadillac warranty book states the following:

"Pre-Delivery Service
Defects in the mechanical, electrical,
sheet metal, paint, trim, and other
components of your vehicle may
occur at the factory or while it is
being transported to the dealer
facility. Normally, any defects
occurring during assembly are
identified and corrected at the factory
during the inspection process. In
addition, dealers inspect each vehicle
before delivery. They repair any
uncorrected factory defects and any
transit damage detected before the
vehicle is delivered to you.
Any defects still present at the time
the vehicle is delivered to you are
covered by the warranty. If you find
any defects, advise your dealer
without delay. For further details
concerning any repairs which the
dealer may have made prior to you
taking delivery of your vehicle, ask
your dealer."

With this documented from the manufacturer, why is having the customer pay to correct paint defects a good idea?

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

Call me a cynic Dustin but I'm having a hard time understanding why a customer should pay for this corrective treatment and why the proposed solution is a dealer add on that I assume isn't offered at cost.

I've purchased roughly 40 new cars in my lifetime and never saw anything close to what you've photographed here. I have purchased from a wide range of manufacturers and prices and have universally found minor paint/clear imperfections or fitment issues. My BMWs have generally been the best in build quality but still had minor flaws. I never expect a completely flawless car but I can't imagine a dealer placing a car in this condition out for delivery with a straight face. I also can't imagine GM being shown these photos and telling a dealer they are SOL and to fix things on their dime.

I used to sell Fords a long time ago and transit damage issues were covered under warranty. Why is this any different? GM doesn't get a 100k hall pass and I can't imagine a dealer, who is in essence a reseller, accepting inventory in this condition to resell without filing a damage claim.

I've purchased a dozen or so new GMs over the years and while their build quality is not on par with BMW, none of my GM's had what I would consider major flaws on delivery. The worst build quality I've experienced has repeatedly been from Ford. Most recently it was on a GT350 which had panel fitment issues that were corrected post delivery under warranty. I also had a cobra mustang from a long time ago, also with panel fitment issues that was also delivered with the clutch installed incorrectly. That car required a clutch replacement which normally isn't warranted but was in this case as they were able to determine the car wasn't abused. I've just never seen a manufacturer not make good on their failure to present a car in what the general population would consider "new" condition.

Page 19 of the 2022 Cadillac warranty book states the following:

"Pre-Delivery Service
Defects in the mechanical, electrical,
sheet metal, paint, trim, and other
components of your vehicle may
occur at the factory or while it is
being transported to the dealer
facility. Normally, any defects
occurring during assembly are
identified and corrected at the factory
during the inspection process. In
addition, dealers inspect each vehicle
before delivery. They repair any
uncorrected factory defects and any
transit damage detected before the
vehicle is delivered to you.
Any defects still present at the time
the vehicle is delivered to you are
covered by the warranty. If you find
any defects, advise your dealer
without delay. For further details
concerning any repairs which the
dealer may have made prior to you
taking delivery of your vehicle, ask
your dealer."

With this documented from the manufacturer, why is having the customer pay to correct paint defects a good idea?

You've never seen this before because you are seeing examples of cars where buyers said to dealers don't touch/prep the car.

My wife's car was dealer prepped for free and looks fine. My car was untouched and pretty dirty with some swirling in the paint.

The horror show I am left with that's not acceptable is the edge of my hood at the a-pillar is literally unpainted and the body line is low. One is an easy adjustment, the other is a huge WTF. I am having an discussion with the dealer about it next week.

 

[1StunnaV]

Wow, not pretty. I take small solace in that it looks like those are post painting incidents meaning the paint process itself isn't the problem. Manufacturers just need to figure out how to better protect cars from factory to delivery. Need some root-cause analysis for the paint issues seen first though.

You are correct. These problems come after the cars sit forever and are not caused during production...

No offense to the OP who is just being upfront of this issue.
But no way in hell am I am going to pay for a paint correction on a car costing me roughly $100 grand. The dealer can pay for it and try to seek reimbursement thru GM or I will walk away.

We don't think you should have to either, hence why we will do our best to get you a replacement quickly, should you choose to not move forward with the first vehicle that arrived......

Have you had any dents or dings on new arrivals? Those photos show some severe defects and while a paint correction is one thing, this is pretty severe and would require a decent amount of paint removal. Far more than should be removed initially. Has GM said anything about covering any costs? I know this isn't the dealer's fault, but this also isn't the customer's fault that is paying MSRP or above for a brand new vehicle. I've had 5 year old cars that have never been detailed look in better shape than that. Mine has been sitting for 3+ months now and this is just going to be the icing on the cake if I have to spend 10+ hours on a paint correction because GM wasnt competent enough to move cars out of their parking lots

In relation to dents/dings. It has not been a problem..

I am sorry but this argument, which I have seen repeatedly, simply doesn't hold water. Either you have a world class paint process or you don't. An Audi S4 or RS4 goes into the same paint process as an A4 and that holds true for all the Audi line. Audi does the same thing as Cadillac, takes a base model and adds thousands of dollars of performance upgrades to create a S or RS version. But a $35K A3 has the same quality paint as an $120k RS6 Avant because Audi has developed a great process. Having said that, my plan is to take my 5BW, when I get it (delayed), and go straight to my detailer for paint correction.
Doesn't mean I will not love the car but as others have said, if GM wants to take on the Germans, on a consistent basis, they have to improve their paint and other QC processes.

The problem isnt the paint process. All damage is occurring afterwards, while sitting in a lot for months on end.

 

[1StunnaV]

Call me a cynic Dustin but I'm having a hard time understanding why a customer should pay for this corrective treatment and why the proposed solution is a dealer add on that I assume isn't offered at cost.

You are 100% accurate. The customer shouldn't have to pay. If you purchase an item at a store and its defective, typically, you return it at that store and exchange it for another one. That's essentially the same option here except the customer never owned the item to start with.... Build up a new one and send in the order!

"To be clear, we will not be forcing any customers to purchase a paint correction/ceramic coat, however, we will not be providing it at no charge either. All customers will have the choice to cover the paint correction/ceramic costs or not purchase the vehicle. Should a customer not want to take possession of their vehicle because they do not want to purchase a paint correction/ceramic coat, we will work with Cadillac on trying to expediate a new order, however, there is no guarantee that it will be fast or that it wouldn't be the same on the next vehicle."

Page 19 of the 2022 Cadillac warranty book states the following:

"Pre-Delivery Service
Defects in the mechanical, electrical,
sheet metal, paint, trim, and other
components of your vehicle may
occur at the factory or while it is
being transported to the dealer
facility. Normally, any defects
occurring during assembly are
identified and corrected at the factory
during the inspection process. In
addition, dealers inspect each vehicle
before delivery. They repair any
uncorrected factory defects and any
transit damage detected before the
vehicle is delivered to you.
Any defects still present at the time
the vehicle is delivered to you are
covered by the warranty. If you find
any defects, advise your dealer
without delay. For further details
concerning any repairs which the
dealer may have made prior to you
taking delivery of your vehicle, ask
your dealer."

With this documented from the manufacturer, why is having the customer pay to correct paint defects a good idea?

This would likely take months to possibly get it approved for each case and likely result in a full repaint of the vehicle...... you would be better off ordering a new vehicle.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Now I am confused and something in the air smells. Post #30 clearly shows the defects are repaired on GM dime. Yet your telling people the dealership you work for will not do it and an additional paint correction fee could occur?
Telling buyers to pay or walk is not a good answer. Otherwise why do we even need the dealer to begin with?
A good dealer takes care of a customer buying a 100,000 car. The least you could do is hire a detail specialist full time and pay their wages to do it.

 

[Tall Steve]

Seems like a lot of first time GM buyers here.

Mine has a lot of blemishes in the paint but so did all of the GM/Cadi vehicles I’ve had. I’ll take it over the other shortcomings from the German manufactures.

^^^THIS^^^ LOL, my detail guy said both of my cars were typical GM paint issues..... Maybe its just me but I always have my cars paint corrected and coated when I purchase new.... Oh, and both of my cars paint turned out fine, lol...

 

[Ivy1Le]

Now I am confused and something in the air smells. Post #30 clearly shows the defects are repaired on GM dime. Yet your telling people the dealership you work for will not do it and an additional paint correction fee could occur?
Telling buyers to pay or walk is not a good answer. Otherwise why do we even need the dealer to begin with?
A good dealer takes care of a customer buying a 100,000 car. The least you could do is hire a detail specialist full time and pay their wages to do it.

He just said later on that "This would likely take months to possibly get it approved for each case and likely result in a full repaint of the vehicle..." .. I doubt anyone would be willing to pay for their car and let it sit at the dealership for months for GM to review their case and then be okay with getting their brand new car fully resprayed by a third party. I don't think it's right to force the dealership to pay wages for correction and they are on the hook hoping GM eventually pays them back. Crappy situation but the situation is fully GMs issue, not the dealer nor the customer. So they are essentially providing a solution that will work for them, if it doesn't work for the customer they will expedite a new order with GM.

^^^THIS^^^ LOL, my detail guy said both of my cars were typical GM paint issues..... Maybe its just me but I always have my cars paint corrected and coated when I purchase new.... Oh, and both of my cars paint turned out fine, lol...

What everyone else is saying is these should no longer be "typical" issues. GM "typically" did not have any true competition with german brands. A Cadillac was just a barely more premium Buick, which was "typically" just a Chevy with a fancy badge. If GM wants to change that perception they need to change they need to dump the word "typical". But I may be expecting too much from a company that knows it's "too big to fail" and a majority of it's buyers only buy them because they are "American"

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I'm willing to put up with a lot of this, especially issues my detailer easily makes right.

My hood body line and UNPAINTED edge, nope. I'm escalating that issue.

 

[Tall Steve]

I can say that my Honda Civic is perfect in every way and it did not cost me a lot on money, lol...

 

[VagonLove]

My 5BW was built at the end of January and I received it in early March. I had planned to have it ceramic coated and, when I did, my detailer showed me a small number of factory blemishes, all of which would've been overlooked by the typical consumer. He did a great job and I am very satisfied with the results.

However, my one observation is that the paint seems very thin on this car compared to my last Audi (in fairness this was a factory matte which may be thicker ?). I am extremely careful when I drive (not ever following too closely), but I managed to get two very small rock chips after about 600 miles of driving. I ordered touch up from Dr ColorChip and now they're barely visible. Again, paint just seemed very thin to me.

 

[Snowwolfe]

It’s becoming more and more clearer to me why Tesla elected to do away with almost all dealers.
You would think the idea of making a nice profit when they sell a vehicle is incentive enough to try to keep the customer happy. After all, everyone of these cars are selling for MSRP or higher.