2022 CT5V Blackwing Quality

[SIX 40]

So if you get the CT5-V BW, will you trade in your M5? I think you will lose a lot of the interior and overall build quality you are used to. But you'll gain that glorious LT4!

Yeah it’s going to be a tough choice when the time comes. I’m really enjoying the M so far, it’s a great place to spend time after a long day and I look forward to the drive home which I haven’t done in a while. The interior is well laid out and I like how there’s ample storage for everything. I never had a place to put my phone down in my V3. My car also has all of the options/features that BMW eventually removed (except for wireless charging which I never use).

Having said that, the lure of a manual LT4 is going to be hard to resist. I guess I’ll attempt to make a decision if/when I ever get a car. I’ll have to take interest rates and how much the M5 will actually be worth when the time comes. (I financed the M at .9/60!). It looks like the used car market could be softening a bit too. I’m also concerned in the back of my mind about the long-term reliability of a hot V twin turbo V8.

Love your 4, congrats! I saw one for the first time over the weekend, they look great in person. I probably should have gone that route too, you did the right thing. Enjoy.

 

[Neveready]

I’m also concerned in the back of my mind about the long-term reliability of a hot V twin turbo V8.

Yeah...that's where the LT4 shines. Historically, M cars and high strung BMWs have cooling issues, rod bearings, VANOS and that's just the drivetrain. If you plan to keep that car out of warranty and plan to drive it regularly, there is no question it will cost at least twice as much to maintain as the BW over the life of the vehicle.

There is nothing wrong with choosing the M5, but that's the cold hard truth.

 

[668LT4]

Yeah it’s going to be a tough choice when the time comes. I’m really enjoying the M so far, it’s a great place to spend time after a long day and I look forward to the drive home which I haven’t done in a while. The interior is well laid out and I like how there’s ample storage for everything. I never had a place to put my phone down in my V3. My car also has all of the options/features that BMW eventually removed (except for wireless charging which I never use).

Having said that, the lure of a manual LT4 is going to be hard to resist. I guess I’ll attempt to make a decision if/when I ever get a car. I’ll have to take interest rates and how much the M5 will actually be worth when the time comes. (I financed the M at .9/60!). It looks like the used car market could be softening a bit too. I’m also concerned in the back of my mind about the long-term reliability of a hot V twin turbo V8.

Love your 4, congrats! I saw one for the first time over the weekend, they look great in person. I probably should have gone that route too, you did the right thing. Enjoy.

Thanks my Friend. I'll be the first to admit I started with the 5, still want the 5... but believe the 4 could easily be enough for me. I definitely prefer the look of the 5, and some of the other features outside of the superior motor (like the around view camera, really cannot believe any Cadillac does not include that, let alone a CT4-V Blackwing).

I also think the used car market will soon soften. Then again, a flare up of Covid or any other new issues to further hamper the supply trains could keep cars elevated for years to come. Interesting times for sure!

 

[SIX 40]

Yeah...that's where the LT4 shines. Historically, M cars and high strung BMWs have cooling issues, rod bearings, VANOS and that's just the drivetrain. If you plan to keep that car out of warranty and plan to drive it regularly, there is no question it will cost at least twice as much to maintain as the BW over the life of the vehicle.

There is nothing wrong with choosing the M5, but that's the cold hard truth.

Yeah, I did my due diligence, spoke to a few BMW techs that assured me that the S63B44 is the most reliable of the 4.4s for what that’s worth. I’m willing to pay to keep it maintained either by the dealer or a good indie shop in my town. The good indie shops aren’t much cheaper than the dealer but they are.

This is my first BMW too, and first German car since my GTI back in the 80s. I’ve typically owned American iron and I buy/drive it with pride so I do miss that a bit and it may sway my decision. We’ll see I guess.

 

[azeyecap]

I've had a 4 for about 6 months/3k miles and everything is holding up well.

-I have trouble with the infotainment system being frozen from time to time, then it will catch up and do a bunch of stuff quickly
-The wireless charging is a mystery to me, sometimes i place my phone in the tray and it starts charging right away, other times i drive around for 20 minutes and it won't charge even as I move the phone around in the tray
-Amazon music sometimes will say "loading" or never connect. Could be the iphone, amazon or GM infotainment system.
-After 3 months i'm very happy with my white seats not getting dirty. I am pretty careful but i was worried about this. especially the arm rest on the door and the center consol that tough my skin, they are staying clean.

Quality issues from delivery- Nothing terrible but all related to pain
-My detail guy round two black particles below the clear coat on the passenger rear door. Those will be there forever
-Near the hood it had a very small paint chip that went all the way down to the metal, my guy didn't know how that could have happened. It took a couple of weeks but the dealer got me a paint pen (didn't charge me for it, i would have lost my mind if they tried to) and he fixed it up well enough to where i don't think about it.

The motor and 6 speed are great, love the car.

 

[Neveready]

Yeah, I did my due diligence, spoke to a few BMW techs that assured me that the S63B44 is the most reliable of the 4.4s for what that’s worth. I’m willing to pay to keep it maintained either by the dealer or a good indie shop in my town. The good indie shops aren’t much cheaper than the dealer but they are.

This is my first BMW too, and first German car since my GTI back in the 80s. I’ve typically owned American iron and I buy/drive it with pride so I do miss that a bit and it may sway my decision. We’ll see I guess.

It sounds like you're aware of what to look for. Most folks have two schools of thought about this.
1. Make the upfront investment in the most comprehensive and longest warranty you can get. Then sell it when it's out of warranty.
2. No warranty. Allocate funds for when things go wrong. Stay on top of maintenance.

The rod bearings issue is somewhat blown out of proportion, but it happens. You could keep an eye out for it by doing a yearly oil analysis for $25. If you find abnormal amounts of copper then you might want to proactively have that addressed before it causes catastrophic damage. It's also a nice to see if there's other issues and it's helpful when it's time to sell.

I own a german car and I've had good luck with several of them over the past 15 years. I feel like they get a bad wrap, and rightfully so in some cases. I think it has more to do with the owners who treat their vehicles as lease machines. But most of it comes down to maintaining the vehicle. I over maintain my vehicles, I change the oil at 7k and/or yearly, I change the fluids, I keep good records and I do whatever preventative maintenance that is reasonable. I don't go by the manufacturers recommended maintenance schedule. 15k mi is too long for an oil change and there's no such thing as "Lifetime Fluid". This philosophy has never failed me, when I sell my cars I tend to get more for them.

 

[668LT4]

I own a german car and I've had good luck with several of them over the past 15 years. I feel like they get a bad wrap, and rightfully so in some cases. I think it has more to do with the owners who treat their vehicles as lease machines.

Think of how many BMWs are leased, abused, and turned in. Maybe they had included oil changes, but did the guy leasing following the break-in procedure? How about test drives on brand new cars that are not yet sold? I have driven 2 different import cars in the past 2 months where a different salesperson for each said "you don't have to take it easy, push as hard as you want" or something to that effect.

I agree with you. Buy your own car that is not driven around by anyone else, properly maintain it, and you are generally good to go.

 

[SIX 40]

It sounds like you're aware of what to look for. Most folks have two schools of thought about this.
1. Make the upfront investment in the most comprehensive and longest warranty you can get. Then sell it when it's out of warranty.
2. No warranty. Allocate funds for when things go wrong. Stay on top of maintenance.

The rod bearings issue is somewhat blown out of proportion, but it happens. You could keep an eye out for it by doing a yearly oil analysis for $25. If you find abnormal amounts of copper then you might want to proactively have that addressed before it causes catastrophic damage. It's also a nice to see if there's other issues and it's helpful when it's time to sell.

I own a german car and I've had good luck with several of them over the past 15 years. I feel like they get a bad wrap, and rightfully so in some cases. I think it has more to do with the owners who treat their vehicles as lease machines. But most of it comes down to maintaining the vehicle. I over maintain my vehicles, I change the oil at 7k and/or yearly, I change the fluids, I keep good records and I do whatever preventative maintenance that is reasonable. I don't go by the manufacturers recommended maintenance schedule. 15k mi is too long for an oil change and there's no such thing as "Lifetime Fluid". This philosophy has never failed me, when I sell my cars I tend to get more for them.

I meant to say thanks for this post. Good info here. I knew I wasn’t going to follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule but also wasn’t sure how often I should change the oil. 5k? 7k? 10?

 

[Vakane]

No issues yet…

Don’t sweat it. These cars are not being built in a rush so since they go through QC so often (because of sitting in the shipping grave yard) they do stuff corrected pretty good.

 

[Neveready]

I meant to say thanks for this post. Good info here. I knew I wasn’t going to follow the manufacturers maintenance schedule but also wasn’t sure how often I should change the oil. 5k? 7k? 10?

Some dealers have denied warranty claims for performing maintenance ahead of schedule. I don't know the specifics of your situation but here's what I would recommend if you really want to keep the M5 7+ years and or out of warranty.

-Drive it less than 7k miles a year and having it changed yearly. This way you won't be put in a situation where your warranty is in question because you'll hit the yearly maintenance before the mi.
-When you bring it in for an oil change, I would ask for an oil sample from the dealer. An analysis will show you how well your oil is holding up and give you more insight into engine wear.

If you plan to rack up more than 7k mi a year:

-Get acquainted with your Service Manager to see if they are onboard with more frequent fluid changes than the recommened intervals. (At your expense of course). If you DIY, I would buy the recommended parts from your dealer and keep the receipts. The goal is to ensure they got your back if a warranty claim should arise.

-Every car has different shortcomings. Keep in touch with the F90 forums and see what others recommend when it comes to maintenance, such as coolant, plugs, front/ rear diff fluid and trans fluid.

 

[rdollie]

I'll share my perspective a bit...

I like V8s and still have a couple of BMW V8s (S65 e90 M3 and a '19 twin-turbo - don't recall nomenclature for the motor.) The advice to keep the M5 no longer than an extended warranty is solid. M cars are ruinously expensive long-term. I've gone through throttle actuators, rod bearings, and most recently fuel pump computer and motor. My first 6 months out of extended warranty with the S65 totaled just over $10k. My most recent visit was $3k, all at a great local independent garage. My CTS-V by comparison had fewer problems (but I didn't keep it as long) and what problems it had were much cheaper to deal with. I expect much the same with my 5 BW.

 

[ominous]

Interesting thread. I had ordered a CT5V for MSRP. When dealer didn't honor our "agreement" I ended up buying a BMW M5 CS. At age 72 I have owned many cars including BMW's. Yes service/parts is ridiculously expensive. BUT this BMW is the most enjoyable drivers car I ever drove. Wanted to buy American but happy with the BMW.

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

Interesting thread. I had ordered a CT5V for MSRP. When dealer didn't honor our "agreement" I ended up buying a BMW M5 CS. At age 72 I have owned many cars including BMW's. Yes service/parts is ridiculously expensive. BUT this BMW is the most enjoyable drivers car I ever drove. Wanted to buy American but happy with the BMW.

That is one incredible car, enjoy it in good health!

Question though; all the Goat Rodeo jokes aside, I had assumed that an M5 CS would be vastly more difficult to obtain than a CT5BW. Surely the dealer must have been asking for some pretty serious ADM for that car?

 

[SIX 40]

Interesting thread. I had ordered a CT5V for MSRP. When dealer didn't honor our "agreement" I ended up buying a BMW M5 CS. At age 72 I have owned many cars including BMW's. Yes service/parts is ridiculously expensive. BUT this BMW is the most enjoyable drivers car I ever drove. Wanted to buy American but happy with the BMW.

I'd love to take one of those for a spin to see how it compares to my Competition sometime. There are a couple here in Austin, hoping to meet up with the locals one day to check one out. The dealer that I ordered my Comp from doesn't do markups so they sold their only one at MSRP. I wasn't really paying attention at the time so I had no idea how good the CS was gonna be so I totally missed the boat (literally haha).

Enjoy it in good health!

 

[ominous]

Waited 8 months for the CT5V. When I took my deposit back I called my brother who played college and pro golf. A friend works for BMW. Had car in less than 2 month wait. I did pay over MSRP for first time ever in my life. However love this car so no regrets. Kudus to GM for building the CT5V and thank you BMW for putting so much effort into making the M5 CS. I might be somewhat biased but honestly I am surprised just how good the M5 CS really is. Great time with interesting options for all.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Waited 8 months for the CT5V. When I took my deposit back I called my brother who played college and pro golf. A friend works for BMW. Had car in less than 2 month wait. I did pay over MSRP for first time ever in my life. However love this car so no regrets. Kudus to GM for building the CT5V and thank you BMW for putting so much effort into making the M5 CS. I might be somewhat biased but honestly I am surprised just how good the M5 CS really is. Great time with interesting options for all.

Do you still have a Blackwing on order or sticking with the M5?

 

[ominous]

Keeping the M5 CS at this time.