(Long) Cross shopped an RS7, M5, and CT5V Blackwing - I'm getting the Blackwing

[BimmerFan]

The interior is interesting because of the absolute wild variance between trims and options. I'm convinced most of the people (rightfully) trashing this interior as a Chevy Malibu amalgamation aren't doing so unfairly - so long as they saw it in the lowest, least optioned form. The standard seats and normal non-CF, non-alcantara interior is basic as they come.

Did they change this in 2025? Because my base 2023 has CF and alcantara bits. The only difference is the seats, AFAIK.

There is something about Audi - they make great interiors, but the otherwise very well engineered cars just seem to lack some soul and character.

 

[ngoni]

There is something about Audi - they make great interiors, but the otherwise very well engineered cars just seem to lack some soul and character.

Reviewers are saying the same about BMW. No excitement or connection with the driving experience.

 

[Mutz]

I went from a RS6 to a 5BW. Initial reason for the RS6 is that the wife was pushy at the time about my second car being an auto, my daily is a mt taco .

If I only had room for one car, the RS6 would win since I live on LI and the awd would be nice in the winter, and the amount of storage in the RS6 is amazing. You can fit a ton of stuff in the back being that it's a wagon. The interior in the RS6 is better than the 5BW, but it is a lot of gimmicky things which contribute, such as the ambient lighting. 5BW HVAC controls are far better though instead of the stupid touchscreen which you need to glance at to make sure you're tapping the right icon.

Driving characteristics they are two different animals. The RS6 not only having more heft, has the entire engine in front of the front axle. You definitely feel the location of that mass when you toss it into a corner. It feels like it takes a second for the weight to load up the front wheels and then the turn in starts. Pure grip once in a turn on the RS6 was comparable, if not maybe a touch better than the 5BW, but it's not nearly as agile feeling. Turn in on the 5BW for a sedan is significantly more immediate.

The big difference between the two is the feedback from the car. The 5BW gives you queues the rear is working. It's far more engaging and rewarding. I also never had a pucker moment in the RS6, where the immediate torque and rwd of the 5BW will definitely let you get more rowdy. Nothing like breaking the tires loose in 2nd on the 5BW when you want to have some fun. I also thoroughly enjoy the 6mt in the 5BW. It has so much torque you can just throw it in 4th and put around town without needing to change gears if you're lazy. If you want to have fun the ratios are close enough that you can spend plenty of time rowing the gears if you want to. It's also extremely rewarding nailing a no-lift shift and leaving some schmuck in a 911 with bad hair plugs in the dust.

 

[Roadhawk]

There is something about Audi - they make great interiors, but the otherwise very well engineered cars just seem to lack some soul and character.

Caveat - Don't have either a 5 BW or an RS6 but this observation and Mutz;s comparison above have made me consider the differences between my old B5 S4 Avant (basically an RS4+ clone) and my 4 BW. Back when I had my Audi reviews (and comments from BMW owners at the time) implied that the S4 was less engaging and sporty as compared to "the ultimate driving machine" etc - and I felt this was far from the truth. Of course the RS6 is a different (larger & heavier) animal....but with my handling mods the S4 was very nimble and engaging, extremely capable and great fun. Yes, it was almost impossible to break traction unless you had some snow/ice or gravel and its engine forward weight could be an issue (plowing/understeer at speed) but it tracked beautifully with great road feedback.

No doubt the 4 BW chassis and turn in bite is superior (kudos to that Tremec shifter as well)....but the 4 BW feels less raw and engaging in many ways...and it feels like a heavier car...though I suspect weights are quite similar. Perhaps its just all the new tech and the EPS. The car certainly is fun and engaging don't get me wrong....its a better car in nearly every way...but to me there is a bit of rawness & fun factor missing as compared to my Audi - and that torque shove in the back was unequaled in my experience - and it was so quick off the line (causing many i faced off against just to quickly give up) though i suspect the 4 BW is a bit better up top....very close in any event.

 

[Roadhawk]

Of course there was one huge advantage/benefit to the S4 wagon...

The pic with the coolers was for when we were heading out to pick up a side of local raised grass fed beef raised and butchered by a friend of a friend of mine. The pic with the mattress and shelving was temporarily moving my youngest back from college before he got his own place...(one of several trips)...

 

[XjonesX]

Of course there was one huge advantage/benefit to the S4 wagon...

The pic with the coolers was for when we were heading out to pick up a side of local raised grass fed beef raised and butchered by a friend of a friend of mine. The pic with the mattress and shelving was temporarily moving my youngest back from college before he got his own place...(one of several trips)...

Wagon ho.......
I'll see your Avant, and up you with this bagged super sized American Olds wagon of mine. It's more of a "Custom Cruiser"...., than a bruiser.

 

[Roadhawk]

Epic!

 

[bamagrad03]

Caveat - Don't have either a 5 BW or an RS6 but this observation and Mutz;s comparison above have made me consider the differences between my old B5 S4 Avant (basically an RS4+ clone) and my 4 BW. Back when I had my Audi reviews (and comments from BMW owners at the time) implied that the S4 was less engaging and sporty as compared to "the ultimate driving machine" etc - and I felt this was far from the truth. Of course the RS6 is a different (larger & heavier) animal....but with my handling mods the S4 was very nimble and engaging, extremely capable and great fun. Yes, it was almost impossible to break traction unless you had some snow/ice or gravel and its engine forward weight could be an issue (plowing/understeer at speed) but it tracked beautifully with great road feedback.

No doubt the 4 BW chassis and turn in bite is superior (kudos to that Tremec shifter as well)....but the 4 BW feels less raw and engaging in many ways...and it feels like a heavier car...though I suspect weights are quite similar. Perhaps its just all the new tech and the EPS. The car certainly is fun and engaging don't get me wrong....its a better car in nearly every way...but to me there is a bit of rawness & fun factor missing as compared to my Audi - and that torque shove in the back was unequaled in my experience - and it was so quick off the line (causing many i faced off against just to quickly give up) though i suspect the 4 BW is a bit better up top....very close in any event.

Audi sort of lost their way in terms of emotion and driving dynamics in favor of really modern interiors and somewhat clinical experience.

I had a b8 s4 and it was a good car but already a far removal from the raw visceral car that was a b5 s4/rs4. The current gen rs6/7 even more so.

They're much nicer than they used to be, faster too, and gorgeous, but if you drove a modem one you'd see immediately those differences compared to yours.

 

[Ergoc5]

I went from a RS6 to a 5BW. Initial reason for the RS6 is that the wife was pushy at the time about my second car being an auto, my daily is a mt taco .

If I only had room for one car, the RS6 would win since I live on LI and the awd would be nice in the winter, and the amount of storage in the RS6 is amazing. You can fit a ton of stuff in the back being that it's a wagon. The interior in the RS6 is better than the 5BW, but it is a lot of gimmicky things which contribute, such as the ambient lighting. 5BW HVAC controls are far better though instead of the stupid touchscreen which you need to glance at to make sure you're tapping the right icon.

Driving characteristics they are two different animals. The RS6 not only having more heft, has the entire engine in front of the front axle. You definitely feel the location of that mass when you toss it into a corner. It feels like it takes a second for the weight to load up the front wheels and then the turn in starts. Pure grip once in a turn on the RS6 was comparable, if not maybe a touch better than the 5BW, but it's not nearly as agile feeling. Turn in on the 5BW for a sedan is significantly more immediate.

The big difference between the two is the feedback from the car. The 5BW gives you queues the rear is working. It's far more engaging and rewarding. I also never had a pucker moment in the RS6, where the immediate torque and rwd of the 5BW will definitely let you get more rowdy. Nothing like breaking the tires loose in 2nd on the 5BW when you want to have some fun. I also thoroughly enjoy the 6mt in the 5BW. It has so much torque you can just throw it in 4th and put around town without needing to change gears if you're lazy. If you want to have fun the ratios are close enough that you can spend plenty of time rowing the gears if you want to. It's also extremely rewarding nailing a no-lift shift and leaving some schmuck in a 911 with bad hair plugs in the dust.

Where on LI are you? There are a few of us here from LI.

 

[Roadhawk]

Audi sort of lost their way in terms of emotion and driving dynamics in favor of really modern interiors and somewhat clinical experience.

I had a b8 s4 and it was a good car but already a far removal from the raw visceral car that was a b5 s4/rs4. The current gen rs6/7 even more so.

They're much nicer than they used to be, faster too, and gorgeous, but if you drove a modem one you'd see immediately those differences compared to yours.

I think I get it. A friend of my neighbors had a B6 S4 Avant that looked like my twin....just a bit porkier. Well, according to my neighbor - who drove both - it really was and not just in looks. He said my car still felt (relatively) small and nimble unlike the later gen.

I also got to drive an S8 a few years back. It was fast and very nice inside and out...but a huge luxo cruiser....not my kind of car. I suspect the RS6/7 to feel better....but similar.

My eldest son is considering a new (for him) car....I've suggested checking out BMW 128/135s etc - as I see them as the last of the "true" BMWs...he's still set on an NC Miata and wants to do a Ford 2.5 L engine swap. I can't fault his choices in any way...

 

[Ergoc5]

I think I get it. A friend of my neighbors had a B6 S4 Avant that looked like my twin....just a bit porkier. Well, according to my neighbor - who drove both - it really was and not just in looks. He said my car still felt (relatively) small and nimble unlike the later gen.

I also got to drive an S8 a few years back. It was fast and very nice inside and out...but a huge luxo cruiser....not my kind of car. I suspect the RS6/7 to feel better....but similar.

My eldest son is considering a new (for him) car....I've suggested checking out BMW 128/135s etc - as I see them as the last of the "true" BMWs...he's still set on an NC Miata and wants to do a Ford 2.5 L engine swap. I can't fault his choices in any way...

Lost interest in Audi after the B7 RS4 gen...I had a C5 A6 2.7T manual (same engine as the B5 S4)...had it modded to Stage 3 with aquamist W/M injection. Loved that gen...granted not as fun to drive stock vs BMWs of that gen but I had KW V3 and other suspension upgrades which made it fun to drive..the car was a total sleeper. Also had a C5 RS6 which I still regret selling..pics below

 

[Roadhawk]

Super nice RS6! I also had a KW suspension setup on my Audi...that combined with stiffer rollbars and some bracing and other mods really made it a handling beast. One October in the rain I was absolutely the fasted car on the dragon for several runs (with video to prove it!) I could out gun and out handle pretty much every Porsche or BMW i ever faced...much to their continued surprise... I totally blew away a relative with an E46 M3 who after riding with me commented that his car couldn't do half of what I could manage on some very technical mountain roads/ I do miss that car.

 

[MookdocOE]

Wagon ho.......
I'll see your Avant, and up you with this bagged super sized American Olds wagon of mine. It's more of a "Custom Cruiser"...., than a bruiser.

Now that's my kind of thing!

 

[Ergoc5]

Super nice RS6! I also had a KW suspension setup on my Audi...that combined with stiffer rollbars and some bracing and other mods really made it a handling beast. One October in the rain I was absolutely the fasted car on the dragon for several runs (with video to prove it!) I could out gun and out handle pretty much every Porsche or BMW i ever faced...much to their continued surprise... I totally blew away a relative with an E46 M3 who after riding with me commented that his car couldn't do half of what I could manage on some very technical mountain roads/ I do miss that car.

Yeah the Kw v3, Hotchkis sway bars and apr snub mounts made a huge difference on the A6...plus full Milltek exhaust ...car was a total sleeper 427 whp

 

[Roadhawk]

Yeah the Kw v3, Hotchkis sway bars and apr snub mounts made a huge difference on the A6...plus full Milltek exhaust ...car was a total sleeper 427 whp

I too had most all the above (Hotchkis etc)....but ran an AWE exhaust (which was sweet....in a gnarly way). Other B5 S4 owners I let drive my car were always impressed how tight it was....and enjoyed the power. Mine sounded great. but have to admit I'd come across a few others sounding even better....some of the best sounding engine/exhausts I've ever heard IMO. I did sometimes love gunning the car in garages and closed in spaces and setting off car alarms...

 

[stephen k]

Currently an RS6 owner, and your assessment is spot on. Love looking at it, doesn't excite me when I drive it.

My brother has a RS6 and I have driven it a handful of times and this above in bold really sums it up .

The looks are ultra badass but its just so sterile to drive. And the Audi steering is something I hate the most..