Why choose a CT4 BW over a new BMW M3? Sincerely asking.

[BrakeFade]

I sold my 5BW 6MT last year. early this year, I got an itch for a manual sedan and was looking for a 6MT M3 in Isle of Man green. Finally, was able to get behind the wheel of one and can say the manual tranny blew chunks. I've been spoiled by the feel of the Tremec trannies from the GT350R to my 5BW. So what did I end up doing? Bought another 6MT 5BW! Price of a built out XD M3 Comp is mid 90's. Might as well go 5BW if you're gonna do that. If you're cross shopping the BW & M3, the 4BW is the way to go, imo.

 

[obeykube]

My decision was veeeeeeeeeeery simple. I drove both cars. BMW first, then the 4BW. I made two shifts with the 4BW's gear box and I knew what I was buying.

4BW M6>M3 M6 all day

If you drive an automatic...I think the distance between the two shrinks quite a bit.

 

[BimmerFan]

The main issue with modern bmws is they no longer design them for “drivers”. Little things like

the clutch delay valve (easy fix but still)


The magnaride is magic. In touring the car floats on the highway, in race settings the car is dead stiff. My f80 on soft was harsh, and full firm wasn’t that much different

One minor point, if I may add: The CDV is now integral to the slave cylinder, so it's not as easy to remove as it was when it was just in the clutch line. I got used to it (although I still hated it) in my M4 because I was just too lazy to go to all of the trouble.

It really wouldn't have mattered though, that wasn't the reason I got rid of it.

And I concur on your Magnaride comment, it is fantastic.

My wife and nearly all of my friends are amazed that I still have the BW (I have car A.D.D.) and that I still love it.

 

[Clubracer6]

My only gripe besides the f80 being one of the best looking sedans ever made….. is that my f80 was SOOOO much more easier to slide, and hold sideways. -

I miss my F80’s for this reason as well, plus the interior was perfection, minus the rattles. I think about getting another.

I sold my 5BW 6MT last year. early this year, I got an itch for a manual sedan and was looking for a 6MT M3 in Isle of Man green. Finally, was able to get behind the wheel of one and can say the manual tranny blew chunks. I've been spoiled by the feel of the Tremec trannies from the GT350R to my 5BW. So what did I end up doing? Bought another 6MT 5BW! Price of a built out XD M3 Comp is mid 90's. Might as well go 5BW if you're gonna do that. If you're cross shopping the BW & M3, the 4BW is the way to go, imo.

Thank you for this! The CT4V would be awesome, but the back seat is just too small. I’ve brought my twin 6 years old twice to the dealer now, so it’s down to the G80 or CT5VBW. I do worry about quality issues with the Cadi though. Some motor issues seems to be coming up quite a bit, but I know that’s not the majority. I also think the dealer experience would be better with BMW and the rear seat has a bit more headroom. All this said, I’m still leaning CT5 and maybe a Miata to go with it when I need my small and nimble fix.

 

[mfcentex]

How was the back seat too small? I took my 11 year old son with me when I test drove the 4BW. He said everything was fine in the back seat. I plan to get one without a moonroof, headroom could be an issue in the future.

 

[savethemanual]

How was the back seat too small? I took my 11 year old son with me when I test drove the 4BW. He said everything was fine in the back seat. I plan to get one without a moonroof, headroom could be an issue in the future.

The ct4 back seat is too small. Hell its smaller than my wife's RS3 which is a good 10 inches shorter.
It's fine for kids and short adults but it is a compromised back seat in a car of this size.

 

[mfcentex]

The ct4 back seat is too small. Hell its smaller than my wife's RS3 which is a good 10 inches shorter.
It's fine for kids and short adults but it is a compromised back seat in a car of this size.

I could fit in the back seat. This will be a third vehicle for me, just want to make sure kids can get in the back. I typically haul them around in a 4 door truck. On occasion I will have them in the back seat for short trips (under 10 miles).

 

[savethemanual]

I could fit in the back seat. This will be a third vehicle for me, just want to make sure kids can get in the back. I typically haul them around in a 4 door truck. On occasion I will have them in the back seat for short trips (under 10 miles).

Same use case, I have other cars for long haul and its a serviceable back seat but its definitely on the smaller side. Especially compared to the m3.

 

[Clubracer6]

How was the back seat too small? I took my 11 year old son with me when I test drove the 4BW. He said everything was fine in the back seat. I plan to get one without a moonroof, headroom could be an issue in the future.

I’m 6’2 and even though I have the seat pretty upright, my boys could not have their feet straight. Maybe once they are out of boosters and their feet can be on the floor it will be better.

 

[Roadhawk]

I just read through this entire thread and enjoyed it quite a bit. Aside from the M3- 4/5 BW comparisons (most all pretty much spot on) I quite enjoyed all the posts about folks driving manual trannys - many for the first time - in various cars. Kudos to all of you...those keeping the faith -as it were and for those who get it and are joining the club for the first time.

I learned to drive on a RWD 1972 MT Toyota Corona (slightly larger then the Corrolla of the day)....and also on our 1967 auto Mercury station wagon. Both my boys learned to drive on our MT 2004 BMW 330 ZHP that we still own. Both currently own and drive MT cars BTW. Anyway I love driving MT and the fact that the 4 V BW had/has a great MT was a key reason we bought it. The engagement of a (decent or better) manual is one of the joys of driving and I feel I am missing out on a very key aspect of driving a car when I'm driving an auto.

As for M3 vs 4 BW - well I'm into smaller cars and the 4 V BW is right on the line of being too large and heavy for me and the M3s are just too big for me (the Caddy would be too if it weren't for how well it handles its weight). I was/am a big fan of the prior gen M2 and for me that car and the 4 V BW were both of interest to me. As my wife nixed the idea of a used car the new M2 didn't do it for me so the 4 V BW was the car. As most here know its a great drivers car and I have no (major) regrets.

In many ways our ZHP is still easier and more fun to drive (even if the clutch/shifter isn't quite as nice as the BW)....but the Caddy is objectively a superior car in most every way and I think - for a drivers car - is more satisfying then a current gen M3 - in many of the ways why the ZHP is to me more satisfying then even a more modern and better performing BW....for my likes anyways. I do love most things about the Caddy though - particularly with spirited driving...and the (very high quality and engaging) MT is a huge part of that. And fast is certainly good as well...

 

[Grainofsand]

I would go with the M3 if you want to modify for more power. The Cadillacs are stagnant in terms of modding

 

[G.Newt]

I would go with the M3 if you want to modify for more power. The Cadillacs are stagnant in terms of modding

"Stagnant" lol. LT4 has tons of support and the LF4 can go 600+whp on stock turbos. 700+ on upgraded hybrids. This is plenty of power for 99% of people. If you're the 1%, I agree, this is the wrong platform.

 

[Turtleb00st]

"Stagnant" lol. LT4 has tons of support and the LF4 can go 600+whp on stock turbos. 700+ on upgraded hybrids. This is plenty of power for 99% of people. If you're the 1%, I agree, this is the wrong platform.

stock block is good for 750-800whp

Maybe 100whp less than a s58 who ever you ask. Pretty sure tap out are the only guys pushing that hard. Who knows if different tuning styles could result in s58 numbers. Not much Data out there

Defiantly not the wrong platform.

At the end of the day, I hate this high hp roll style of racing. 60-130 is gay. 800+whp cars that only trap 140 is gay.

If I wanted to set the world on fire in a straight line with a modern “affordable” car, I would get a ttrs. 60-130 is zoomer bs, but then Then Audi boys are trapping 170 stock block.

I’m not understanding going OD max effort, running a nice g80/4vBW to the ragged edge just for 145 traps. Buy a proper drag platform, or just get an audi tt rs.

 

[Xpedite]

stock block is good for 750-800whp

Maybe 100whp less than a s58 who ever you ask. Pretty sure tap out are the only guys pushing that hard. Who knows if different tuning styles could result in s58 numbers. Not much Data out there

Defiantly not the wrong platform.

At the end of the day, I hate this high hp roll style of racing. 60-130 is gay. 800+whp cars that only trap 140 is gay.

If I wanted to set the world on fire in a straight line with a modern “affordable” car, I would get a ttrs. 60-130 is zoomer bs, but then Then Audi boys are trapping 170 stock block.

I’m not understanding going OD max effort, running a nice g80/4vBW to the ragged edge just for 145 traps. Buy a proper drag platform, or just get an audi tt rs.

WTF?! Are you serious? Ranting about trap speeds being “gay?” Are we at recess? Grow up. Lose the hate.

 

[FatTurtle]

As far as cosmetic mods, the CT4 BW doesn't have that kind of aftermarket support. Compared to the M3, the CT4 modding community barely registers.

 

[Dirkbg]

That's because we don't HAVE to modify our car to achieve perfection

 

[mfcentex]

That's because we don't HAVE to modify our car to achieve perfection

I was thinking something similar. I don't own either at this point. The M3 needs two modifications right at purchase (front grill and oil cooler cover). I haven't found anything needed for the 4BW.

 

[Xpedite]

I posted at the beginning of the thread about my ultimately disappointing experience with what I thought was my dream car - a manual G80 M3 after choosing it over the 4V BW. Well, with several cars and a couple years later, I finally bought a CT4V BW last week.

Steering feel and ride quality are huge wins for the Blackwing. I much prefer the instrumentation and interfaces in the Cadillac as well.

The carbon buckets were comfy in the M3 for my skinny ass though extracting myself from them was always awkward. (I hate the base M3 seats.) The (fancy) seats in the BW are a better balance but I had to get a damn special edition to get the CF seatbacks so they’d look almost as cool as the M3’s.

I do like the look of the G80 more than most but the 4V Blackwing (with the carbon bits ) looks better. I find the sound in both rather uninspiring out of the box. That needs some work.

G80 has a few wins: a much more usable backseat and a bigger trunk, better headlights, and it’s a bit faster but the Blackwing is just overall a more cohesive package and simply more engaging to drive. I like it better.

The biggest factor in all this for me, though, is the manual transmission. That’s why I bought the car. I will split my driving between the Blackwing, an Ioniq 5N and a Maserati Grecale Trofeo. The relaxed, sloppy nature of the shifting in the M3 is very much at odds with how serious, stiff and fast the rest of the car is. The shifter in the BW is almost perfect to me.

The M3 is a good, very capable car but it wasn’t great for me. I’ve driven the Comp with the ZF auto a lot, too. It fits the car better but is not very fun, either. Hope this helps cross-shoppers.

 

[dinkman]

I posted at the beginning of the thread about my ultimately disappointing experience with what I thought was my dream car - a manual G80 M3 after choosing it over the 4V BW. Well, with several cars and a couple years later, I finally bought a CT4V BW last week.

Steering feel and ride quality are huge wins for the Blackwing. I much prefer the instrumentation and interfaces in the Cadillac as well.

The carbon buckets were comfy in the M3 for my skinny ass though extracting myself from them was always awkward. (I hate the base M3 seats.) The (fancy) seats in the BW are a better balance but I had to get a damn special edition to get the CF seatbacks so they’d look almost as cool as the M3’s.

I do like the look of the G80 more than most but the 4V Blackwing (with the carbon bits ) looks better. I find the sound in both rather uninspiring out of the box. That needs some work.

G80 has a few wins: a much more usable backseat and a bigger trunk, better headlights, and it’s a bit faster but the Blackwing is just overall a more cohesive package and simply more engaging to drive. I like it better.

The biggest factor in all this for me, though, is the manual transmission. That’s why I bought the car. I will split my driving between the Blackwing, an Ioniq 5N and a Maserati Grecale Trofeo. The relaxed, sloppy nature of the shifting in the M3 is very much at odds with how serious, stiff and fast the rest of the car is. The shifter in the BW is almost perfect to me.

The M3 is a good, very capable car but it wasn’t great for me. I’ve driven the Comp with the ZF auto a lot, too. It fits the car better but is not very fun, either. Hope this helps cross-shoppers.

congrats!

 

[Bruce0293]

Gents,

Im in my 60's (gulp) and a car nut like the rest of you. I have owned numerous vehicles in this man's life, modified most of them in some fashion, tastefully, always want just a bit more in regards to overall performance, etc. I have autocrossed enough to have loads of 1st and 2nd place year end plaques, tracked somewhat less, but I've been told I'm pretty good at it. I tell you this not to inflate my ego(I tend to be a humble sort), nor to impress you, just to preface my two cents. Yes, I could have done it with less fanfare, smiling.

I had 4 BMW's before buying my 5th, it being a 2022 330ix, M Sport for a DD. I owned it a couple weeks, and bought new Conti DSW tires, had it aligned 3 times, and then started reading forums on this platform, watching pod casts etc. Well educated individuals, one having and tracking a Cayman S like myself. Many including myself were willing to eat 10k just to get out of the car. I had an open case with BMW regarding my not being able to keep it driving straight down the road. I had it aligned for a 4th time at a BMW garage, with them knowing I had an open case. They aligned it 'TO SPEC, exactly'. It still was exhausting to drive any distance. I've never have hated anything, but nearly did that vehicle. I found a low mileage Golf R (this being my 2nd and honestly one of the best, if not the best 'overall platforms' I have owned), and traded down taking a 10-12K hit. The Golf is tuned/modofied as is my Cayman S and it being the most scalpel like driving car of anything I've owned including 3 corvettes which were aggressively aligned, the last two being C7's, as well as many other high performance vehicles. BTW the 330 also rode like a coal cart being crazy hard with the M Sport suspension. There wasn't a single time I drove it, that I wasn't frustrated with the rough ride and driving dynamics. I don't know, but I assume the M3/M4 would be as stiff, likely stiffer.?.?

* I recently bought a very low mileage (5900 miles) highly optioned 2023 CT4-V BW, 10 speed. It is everything all the reviews and pod casts say, from the ones we all repsect! It is an awesome performance sedan! As an added note, driving it on level-ish interstate with cruise set a 72, I got 32.5 mpg over 300 plus miles driving it home from Indianapolis when buying it. I too took it to Florida a week ago, driving a couple hundred miles on secondary mountainis roads, including Tail of the Dragon. Down and back with interstate speeds being 75 mostly to 85 on some stints in trafic flow over 2500 trip miles, I averaged 27.0 mpg. Note, I did a manual check and the digital readout compared to manual was within 1%. I've not driven it very agressively as yet and still have factory alignment and not a track alignments. However it drives VERY nice and turns in great. Like all the magazine types/reputable Pod casts say.... I'd buy this HANDS DOWN over the NUMB on center feel of the modern BMW's.

sincerely
Bruce