Media dumps

[savethemanual]

Well I think Ford has a pretty good opportunity on their hands if they can capitalize on it.

They already have a 5.0 V8, 10speed auto and 2 6 speed manual transmissions in the Mustang. Though options can jack up the price, the Mustang V8 still starts at 45k.

If they can design an edgy new 4 door body but share many of the parts, they might be able to start the Mach 4 at not much more than that 45k starting price. Since its also branded a Mustang, they can share large portions of the dash and interior, headlamps, tail lights without being called out on it.

At that point, magazine comparison darlings like the Civic Type R and GR Corolla come into jeopardy.

The only 3 manual transmission sedans on the market are the 2 blackwings and the M3. All of which are luxury brand products. The only V8 manual sedan is the 5BW, which is going to now start close to 100k.

This is the the car that enthusiasts have been asking for, a sporty manual V8 sedan without a luxury make price tag.

GM has done it in the past, but always went halfway with it. Importing the Holdens from Australia, or doing the CTS Vs with Cadillac. But they never really made a Camaro sedan even though all the ingredients were there.

If this Mustang sedan comes out with the Coyote V8, 6 speed manual and a sub 50K price tag, and it sells, then I hope the GM executives that never greenlit a Camaro sedan get a good look of what could have been.

This almost reads like a r/cars fever dream.

The Mach 4 is not going to start under 50k. Ford right now is not really known for undercutting non existent competition. They will look at precisely what you said - the cheapest manual v8 sedan is 100k so this will be priced accordingly.

My bet is it’s close to 60k.

More data on why-
The charger scat pack, the closest charger in performance to a coyote engined mustang was 53k in 2022 dollars.

 

[Roadhawk]

Zygrene, Mark from SavageGeese & Kevin (Jubbal & Cars) (who I don't know) sitting on a couch at Zygrene's talking about their ideal 3 car garage and other stuff about cars & reviewing cars...slow but somewhat interesting. On 2 or 3 occasions Mark mentions CT4 & CT 5 BWs as his desired daily. Unfortunately not too much detail or discussion of such. The first mention is around the 16:30 mark.

They also go through all the various cars they have owned and quite a bit of discussions of Porsche 911s and Caymens and why at least Mark prefers the 911....etc. Mark also talks about his love for his Corvette and a fair amount of talk about recent/current.Corvettes.

Makes me happy and content to have owned and driven all the cars that I have had and now have. I have and have had some damn good (fun to drive) cars over the years even if I haven't owned or driven many of the very fun cars out there.

 

[rubberduck]

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www.motortrend.com

BEAUTIFUL!

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

 

[white98ls]

Judging by the stupid stuff I did as a teenager with a 140hp Integra and how this car goads even a calmer, older, more mature version of me to do stupid stuff, I do hold the parents somewhat accountable. No teenager should have access to a car like this without supervision. The fact he was posting these videos online should've been noticed and seen as a huge red flag.

 

[Deneed4spd]

Judging by the stupid stuff I did as a teenager with a 140hp Integra and how this car goads even a calmer, older, more mature version of me to do stupid stuff, I do hold the parents somewhat accountable. No teenager should have access to a car like this without supervision. The fact he was posting these videos online should've been noticed and seen as a huge red flag.

I always told my wife my kids first car will be a Prius because it goes so slow. Now Prius go 0-60 in 6 secs. Out goes that logic. Anyhow - I also agree no teenager should be given any type of car with that much speed and power.

 

[white98ls]

I always told my wife my kids first car will be a Prius because it goes so slow. Now Prius go 0-60 in 6 secs. Out goes that logic. Anyhow - I also agree no teenager should be given any type of car with that much speed and power.

Agreed, I think a 7-8 second 0-60 is probably ideal for a kid - plus a driver education course.

 

[shbox]

Does the teen driver mode work on the BW? My guess is that no one has ever looked into it.

 

[rubberduck]

Does the teen driver mode work on the BW? My guess is that no one has ever looked into it.

No way, my BW has a minimum age limit of 30 and potential drivers must pass a drug test, a 120 question exam, and a driving test in their vehicle.

 

[Finally-a-V]

Sadly, remember where we are in today's world. No one cares, there's no personal responsibility, everyone wins, do whatever you want, say whatever you want, you're not the boss of me, parents can't/don't parent......should I keep going?

 

[565565]

 

[T.O.Blackwing]

References a car I own (CT5 BW), a car I used to own (CTS-V wagon), next car I want own (SC500), and a car I recommended to a friend as more likely to keep its value than the Golf R he is thinking of getting (Corolla GR).
I think Doug’s on the money but would rather he kept his opinion about the SC500 to himself, or at least for 2 or 3 years, which is when I’m likely to trade my BW in for one.
I also like the manual M2, and I have to say it actually looks kind of cool in person

 

[bloominguez]

References a car I own (CT5 BW), a car I used to own (CTS-V wagon), next car I want own (SC500), and a car I recommended to a friend as more likely to keep its value than the Golf R he is thinking of getting (Corolla GR).
I think Doug’s on the money but would rather he kept his opinion about the SC500 to himself, or at least for 2 or 3 years, which is when I’m likely to trade my BW in for one.
I also like the manual M2, and I have to say it actually looks kind of cool in person

I'm happy to own a 5BW and a GR Corolla, but would note that Doug specifically said that the GR Corolla Circuit Edition (second highest trim level in 2023, highest trim level in 2024) is the one that would be a future classic. Probably the 2023 Morizo edition as well--but he's talking about cars you can buy *now* in 2024. 2024 Circuit Edition added the forged wheels, I think, along with other 2024 changes for all trims such as parking sensors, so I'd rather have the 2024 GRC Circuit Edition if I had a choice of years.

FWIW, I did not get the Circuit Edition, although I would have loved to. They were much more scarce and dealers were not willing to sell without markup (that I could find, anyway). I ended up with a Premium and am very happy with it. Perhaps now the Circuit Edition is more available closer to MSRP? If so, I highly recommend it.

 

[savethemanual]

It’s Doug so I take his lists now a days with a pinch of salt. But he missed a few obvious ones- the ct4 v blackwing. It’s all the same reasons as the m2/m3 and is actually better to drive. Also bonus points for not selling well and being rare.

He also missed the z4 manual, the 718s esp the gts, gen 6 Camaro (ss 1le, zl1).nd2/nd3 Miata and last but not least the c8 z06.

 

[shbox]

I don't watch or listen to Doug.

 

[T.O.Blackwing]

I don't watch or listen to Doug.

Over the past few years Doug has fallen far behind Hagerty and Throttle House, to cite just two examples, in terms of quality of his reviews.
But I think that as the operator of a auction house (which probably makes him more money than Throttle House's reviews earn for Thomas and James) he has a pretty good sense of where the market is at and where it might go.

 

[savethemanual]

Over the past few years Doug has fallen far behind Hagerty and Throttle House, to cite just two examples, in terms of quality of his reviews.
But I think that as the operator of a auction house (which probably makes him more money than Throttle House's reviews earn for Thomas and James) he has a pretty good sense of where the market is at and where it might go.

I highly highly doubt that.

Most of his insights are insights you and I can come up with. For example is there 1 car on the list you wouldn't have thought of as future classics/collectibles? The omissions are actually glaring and actually show the lack of insight in his videos based on his day job.

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

Most youtubers are just cranking out videos that they think the algorithm wants - and a lot of people click on those 'which car will be collectible' videos. The actual content of the video is a secondary concern.

My take

1. Will the 5 Blackwing be as collectable as the manual CTS-V Wagon? No. The production numbers are already higher and the V-Wagon has more of an X-Factor in terms of it being an American High Performance Manual Wagon. The car media coverage on that thing was wall to wall even upon release in a way the Blackwing has not been. I thought Doug was insane for saying he didn't think it would be collectable; it checks all the obvious boxes so long as you aren't inherently brand-biased against Cadillac.

2. What current cars will be collectables? I am going to get annihilated for this, but I'd suspect it's going to be quirky or record-breaking electric cars like the Lucid Air Sapphire, Rivian R1T, Rimac Nevera and ugh, the Cybertruck. Why? Because they're not selling in large numbers, at least two of those companies will no longer exist, and its what today's teenagers will be after when they're middle-aged. Just don't worry about the batteries, lol.

3. Buying cars just to collect them keeps them out of the hands of enthusiasts who will drive them. Can they just not invest in stocks or crypto instead and let us enjoy the cars?

 

[savethemanual]

I am going to get annihilated for this, but I'd suspect it's going to be quirky or record-breaking electric cars like the Lucid Air Sapphire, Rivian R1T, Rimac Nevera and ugh, the Cybertruck.

I agree. Even things like the first gen model 3, model S etc might become valuable one day. The original tesla roadster already is a collectible, its only natural other cars of that vein follow the same trajectory.
PS- this is the kind of insight you would expect from Doug, not that a GR corolla is going to be coveted one day. duh.

 

[Roadhawk]

I'm not sure any of these early gen EVs will be at all collectable (OK maybe Lucid...) when future ones will likely be so much better.

And I'm not sure that folks who value EVs are the type to care as much about what real enthusiasts value (and are willing to pay for)....who knows....I'm probably not the best for predicting such things as I seem to be out of the mainstream on most things (and I like it that way). I've never bought a car with any thought of resale value or care about such things. I buy cars that I want to drive....and thats what I do....usually into the ground.

My car enthusiasts neighbors (who work on cars and know what they are doing) often buy my well used cars and restore them to what they were and more. I often wish I still had some of those cars...but as I'm not mechanically inclined its probably best that they are in the hands of folks that are...