For the sake of resale value I hope this is a mistake

[raptor5244]

Cadi dealership I bought my car at said they'd give me $60k. (They didn't see it in person)
Said they'd have gone a little higher, but "they have 10 sitting on the lot." Only 1 is a manual.
That's quite the depreciation for a "niche" vehicle.

What was MSRP on your build?

There are some decent deals around here on 4BWs. Same dealer by me just increased the discounts another $1000 and they still won't move. The interest rates are just too high right now.

 

[raptor5244]

The same dealership has a 12k markup plus 2k addendum on the only manual on the lot.

Run the VIN through Vroom and see what it comes back with. Vroom was the only online site I found that came back with an automated price on my 2022 4BW.

 

[OldGoat]

Run the VIN through Vroom and see what it comes back with. Vroom was the only online site I found that came back with an automated price on my 2022 4BW.

Just beware of Vroom. They offered by far best price on my Audi RS5 while was waiting for my 5BW. They had me send in my title before any check was sent out, Ok wasn't too happy with that but complied. Several days later a get a call that a driver was coming to pick up my car. I said ok will he have my check? Not how they do business, huh? I told them no check, no car. Next day the driver calls me to be home to pick up car. I ask will you have my check? No? Don't bother coming, he gives me a number to call. Spoke to some corporate asshat said after they received the car a check would be issued. I told them deal is off send back my title. Made me wait over a week to get it back.
Found out they operate that way so they can chip away the agreed opon price for any incidental damages that they deem were not properly conveyed.
Take my title and car and then readjust the price. FUCK THEM.

 

[shbox]

Just beware of Vroom. They offered by far best price on my Audi RS5 while was waiting for my 5BW. They had me send in my title before any check was sent out, Ok wasn't too happy with that but complied. Several days later a get a call that a driver was coming to pick up my car. I said ok will he have my check? Not how they do business, huh? I told them no check, no car. Next day the driver calls me to be home to pick up car. I ask will you have my check? No? Don't bother coming, he gives me a number to call. Spoke to some corporate asshat said after they received the car a check would be issued. I told them deal is off send back my title. Made me wait over a week to get it back.
Found out they operate that way so they can chip away the agreed opon price for any incidental damages that they deem were not properly conveyed.
Take my title and car and then readjust the price. FUCK THEM.

I would never turn over a title without $$ in hand.

 

[MookdocOE]

I think you misunderstood the comment - I am referring strictly to the 4BW Auto resale value. The 5BW has its own competition but none are manual and most aren’t in the same price point. Very different which is why Manual 5BWs are still going for 10-15k over MSRP depending where you look and 4BW Autos are 10-15k under MSRP. Meanwhile Auto 5BWs tend to just sit and can be had for MSRP or under because dealers are starting to realize 90% of buyers want to row gears.

The reality is quite different from perception. The vast majority doesn't want to row gears otherwise you would have the other mfg's offering that option. The current take rate for BW 6speeds is probably 50% which is EXTREMELY high in these types of vehicles i.e. sport sedans.

 

[Dubbed.theB]

What was MSRP on your build?

There are some decent deals around here on 4BWs. Same dealer by me just increased the discounts another $1000 and they still won't move. The interest rates are just too high right now.

$72.5k was my build. I didn't pay a markup, but they did have a forced $2k addendum on top of the MSRP. So it was $74.5k.

And yeah, interest rates are insane right now.

 

[raptor5244]

$72.5k was my build. I didn't pay a markup, but they did have a forced $2k addendum on top of the MSRP. So it was $74.5k.

And yeah, interest rates are insane right now.

I paid MSRP but my 4BW was pretty much a budget build at $61.5k. I keep the miles low and usually like to try something new every 2-3 years but it looks like I may need to drive this one a while longer. It is a good thing I really enjoy it.

This is just another example of a great GM car that doesn’t sell well. The 6th gen Camaro is arguably the best muscle car and it sold the worst of the big three. I am not sure what the problem is but when you have the best product but worst sales you have an issue. Pricing, branding, advertising?

 

[RDATLTE]

I paid MSRP but my 4BW was pretty much a budget build at $61.5k. I keep the miles low and usually like to try something new every 2-3 years but it looks like I may need to drive this one a while longer. It is a good thing I really enjoy it.

This is just another example of a great GM car that doesn’t sell well. The 6th gen Camaro is arguably the best muscle car and it sold the worst of the big three. I am not sure what the problem is but when you have the best product but worst sales you have an issue. Pricing, branding, advertising?

Over producing beyond the demand?

 

[raptor5244]

Over producing beyond the demand?

Appears so, I am just surprised since the 4BW is a low volume vehicle. Just not much demand for a 4 door Cadillac sports sedan. If it was shaped like an SUV they would sell a ton of them.

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I paid MSRP but my 4BW was pretty much a budget build at $61.5k. I keep the miles low and usually like to try something new every 2-3 years but it looks like I may need to drive this one a while longer. It is a good thing I really enjoy it.

This is just another example of a great GM car that doesn’t sell well. The 6th gen Camaro is arguably the best muscle car and it sold the worst of the big three. I am not sure what the problem is but when you have the best product but worst sales you have an issue. Pricing, branding, advertising?

Remember, BW is a trim line, Camaro is a model line.

It's more apt to compare BWs to ZL1s.

 

[Barstoolman1127]

$72.5k was my build. I didn't pay a markup, but they did have a forced $2k addendum on top of the MSRP. So it was $74.5k.

And yeah, interest rates are insane right now.

Yeah, that’s called a mark up!!

 

[strohw]

Remember, BW is a trim line, Camaro is a model line.

It's more apt to compare BWs to ZL1s.

I know the price isn't the same but the 4BW is just a 4 door SS 1LE. They even have an almost identical lightning lap time.


Also, just as a general statement, the dealers are ordering too many of the 4. There are 630 listed on Autotrader and that's way too many for a niche vehicle. It's why you're seeing discounts at some dealers.

 

[ajamils]

Just beware of Vroom. They offered by far best price on my Audi RS5 while was waiting for my 5BW. They had me send in my title before any check was sent out, Ok wasn't too happy with that but complied. Several days later a get a call that a driver was coming to pick up my car. I said ok will he have my check? Not how they do business, huh? I told them no check, no car. Next day the driver calls me to be home to pick up car. I ask will you have my check? No? Don't bother coming, he gives me a number to call. Spoke to some corporate asshat said after they received the car a check would be issued. I told them deal is off send back my title. Made me wait over a week to get it back.
Found out they operate that way so they can chip away the agreed opon price for any incidental damages that they deem were not properly conveyed.
Take my title and car and then readjust the price. FUCK THEM.

That's a common practices. GiveMeTheVin also works the same way. The reason is that they need to inspect the car to ensure that it is in the condition described it in. Sold my Hellrango to them earlier this year and was concerned as well but received the payment in two days after they receive my vechile. Pretty smooth transaction.

 

[jbawden]

Appears so, I am just surprised since the 4BW is a low volume vehicle. Just not much demand for a 4 door Cadillac sports sedan. If it was shaped like an SUV they would sell a ton of them.

Oooh, XT6-V would be fun.

 

[1Evil55]

Oooh, XT6-V would be fun.

x56465115 The thought has crossed my mind many times to find a good motor to put in a new XT6. Lower it a little and put some BW5 wheels on it.

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I know the price isn't the same but the 4BW is just a 4 door SS 1LE. They even have an almost identical lightning lap time.


Also, just as a general statement, the dealers are ordering too many of the 4. There are 630 listed on Autotrader and that's way too many for a niche vehicle. It's why you're seeing discounts at some dealers.

Autotrader is not an accurate measure of inventory. The dealer sites populate Autotrader listings with cars that aren't available for dealer stock.

Also, moving the goal post of the point about the Camaro. We were talking about sales numbers. The BlackWing is a CT4, and those sales numbers would be compared to the Camaro. Sales numbers are by model, not trim line.

 

[savethemanual]

I paid MSRP but my 4BW was pretty much a budget build at $61.5k. I keep the miles low and usually like to try something new every 2-3 years but it looks like I may need to drive this one a while longer. It is a good thing I really enjoy it.

This is just another example of a great GM car that doesn’t sell well. The 6th gen Camaro is arguably the best muscle car and it sold the worst of the big three. I am not sure what the problem is but when you have the best product but worst sales you have an issue. Pricing, branding, advertising?

The ct4 bw is a low 60s or at most mid 60s car. Most of the $ spent beyond that is not going to make a tangible difference in resale value.

 

[strohw]

Autotrader is not an accurate measure of inventory. The dealer sites populate Autotrader listings with cars that aren't available for dealer stock.

Also, moving the goal post of the point about the Camaro. We were talking about sales numbers. The BlackWing is a CT4, and those sales numbers would be compared to the Camaro. Sales numbers are by model, not trim line.

I feel it's a very good tool for measurement because the original topic was residuals and has expanded to price adjustments and availabity. If you have high numbers on Autotrader then it means that vehicle is readily making into both dealer and customer's hands. Price adjustments and excessive residuals for a low production vehicle work off the fact that there is difficulty in obtaining the vehicle. 630+ listed on Autotrader is wayyy too high for a car like this. It's why you're seeing discounts now and why you're seeing dealerships with multiple 4BW that are sitting.

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I feel it's a very good tool for measurement because the original topic was residuals and has expanded to price adjustments and availabity. If you have high numbers on Autotrader then it means that vehicle is readily making into both dealer and customer's hands. Price adjustments and excessive residuals for a low production vehicle work off the fact that there is difficulty in obtaining the vehicle. 630+ listed on Autotrader is wayyy too high for a car like this. It's why you're seeing discounts now and why you're seeing dealerships with multiple 4BW that are sitting.

Again, the number 630 isn't accurate though. We found this out last year. People's ordered cars were listed on Autotrader as inventory.

 

[strohw]

Again, the number 630 isn't accurate though. We found this out last year. People's ordered cars were listed on Autotrader as inventory.

I'm not saying 630 vehicles are on dealer lots. All traditional vehicle manufacturers that I know of list both dealer and customer produced orders automatically on these sites. What it does represent is the quantity of vehicles making into the hands of dealers and customers. If this number is high, which it is for the type of vehicle, then it means there is a lot of inventory on dealer lots and custom orders are readily being delivered. Which means that residuals aren't going to be artificially high and dealer markups are going to be more difficult to implement if not the need for discounts. You can compare the listed numbers of the 4BW to other vehicles like the Type R, M3/M4, Golf R, Supra, etc and see there are much less of those being delivered to customers and dealers.