For the sake of resale value I hope this is a mistake

[strohw]

People keep saying there is a coming refresh with no actual evidence. Honestly I wouldn't be completely shocked if 2024 is the end of the line for the current Blackwings with only the CT5 and CT5-V receiving any kind of refresh after that. It really is going to depend on if GM thinks a refresh of the current BW is even worth the effort or if its time to start moving some of the higher end sedans over to electric.

It's a refresh so the primary changes will be inside the cabin which would hold across all models in the line up. On the exterior you have a different front bumper and front fenders. They could continue with no changes on the outside or simply change the front bumper design slightly. There isn't much effort in carrying over a refresh to the BW trim as well.

 

[raptor5244]

Dealers by me advertise them at MSRP. Some honor the price but have some high dealer fees or some overpriced "appearance packages" you have to buy such as tint, ceramic coating, etc.

 

[vj123]

So, here are a few CT5W BWs being significantly discounted! $10-11K off 3 cars and $10ish over on 5 others.

%VEHICLE_SEARCH_PAGE_KEYWORDS_CAP_FIRST_LETTER% Vehicles For Sale In %CITY% & %DEALER_GEO_ONE% Near Me

Search for %VEHICLE_SEARCH_PAGE_KEYWORDS% vehicles near %CITY%, %DEALER_GEO_ONE% and %DEALER_GEO_TWO% at %DEALER_NAME%. %VEHICLE_SEARCH_PAGE_KEYWORDS_CAP_FIRST_LETTER% Vehicles For Sale Near Me.

www.crestviewcadillac.com

They purposelly list the vehicle with GMEP (even though BWs are not eligible) to get foot traffic. Its the same dealer who listed Escalade V with $100k ADM as GMEP.

Dealer Lists 2023 Cadillac Escalade V Employee Price at $254,405

The "GM Employee Price" is a huge markup of $100,000 over sticker.

www.thedrive.com

 

[vj123]

$10K off is with employee pricing. $10K over is without. Just got off the phone with them.

The fact that BW are now eligible for employee pricing is telling. But a $20K swing in price is silly. Still curious if anyone has actually done business with them.

With another phone call, they might say "sorry, BWs are excluded, just checked with my manager".

 

[rubberduck]

The fact that they are charging ADM on any Blackwing is all you need to know.

 

[Badillac]

Crestview Cadillac is listing GM employee discount pricing. They say that most people in metro Detroit have that discount available to them.

I'm from Detroit & bought mine in Metro area & have eligibility for employee discount on GM vehicles. However, employee discount is not applicable to BWs. Read it in fine print & was also clarified by my dealer. This exemption in implemented by GM, not by specific dealers.

 

[Likuid]

It's a refresh so the primary changes will be inside the cabin which would hold across all models in the line up. On the exterior you have a different front bumper and front fenders. They could continue with no changes on the outside or simply change the front bumper design slightly. There isn't much effort in carrying over a refresh to the BW trim as well.

I am not saying it won't happen, I wouldn't be shocked either way, but I think people who seem so sure a refresh will happen may be surprised that it may not be worth it to bother for GM. Its not some foregone conclusion some people are making it out to be.

 

[Tall Steve]

Crestview Cadillac is listing GM employee discount pricing. They say that most people in metro Detroit have that discount available to them.

 

[Sphinx]

Yeah, that exclusion doesn't line up with what they are saying. Which means that they are either being shady or the inventory isn't moving and they are sweetening the pot to get it gone, but limiting the discount to a handful of customers.

 

[Head Hunter]

I think the autos (4 and 5BW) will see their values take bigger hits than their manual peers. Similar to how V2s without Recaros never pulled as much as their peers. I think the biggest draw to a 5BW atleast is the fact it’s your only option for a manual luxury sport sedan. I believe the M3 still has a manual option (could be wrong), which could also hurt the 4BW.

 

[Sphinx]

I think the autos (4 and 5BW) will see their values take bigger hits than their manual peers. Similar to how V2s without Recaros never pulled as much as their peers. I think the biggest draw to a 5BW atleast is the fact it’s your only option for a manual luxury sport sedan. I believe the M3 still has a manual option (could be wrong), which could also hurt the 4BW.

Correct, the base non-competition M3 has a manual. M2 manual might also be a competitor though the reviews on the dynamics have been mixed.

 

[PrimeTime]

Competitor? to a 5BW? ^^^^ My 5BW delivers dividends EVERY time I drive her. Its an A10 with attitude son.

 

[Sphinx]

Competitor? to a 5BW? ^^^^ My 5BW delivers dividends EVERY time I drive her. Its an A10 with attitude son.

I think it's a legit competitor to a 4BW - it may not be a better car but they are market competitors. Honestly, I never liked the 4BWs design. So if I was shopping in that price point, I'd have to look at the M2 - my problem is that I prefer the F87 over thr G87.

 

[PrimeTime]

if you say so.

 

[savethemanual]

I think cts v and ats v are good indicators of long term resale values for the blackwings. Maybe a little more with the ev push and the last manual gas Cadillacs.

 

[Head Hunter]

Competitor? to a 5BW? ^^^^ My 5BW delivers dividends EVERY time I drive her. Its an A10 with attitude son.

I think you misunderstood the comment - I am referring strictly to the 4BW Auto resale value. The 5BW has its own competition but none are manual and most aren’t in the same price point. Very different which is why Manual 5BWs are still going for 10-15k over MSRP depending where you look and 4BW Autos are 10-15k under MSRP. Meanwhile Auto 5BWs tend to just sit and can be had for MSRP or under because dealers are starting to realize 90% of buyers want to row gears.

 

[vj123]

4BW Autos are 10-15k under MSRP. Meanwhile Auto 5BWs tend to just sit and can be had for MSRP or under

15k off 4BW and under MSRP deals on 5BW? Can you share those leads.

Also when you say under MSRP for 5BW, is it $500 or $5000 off MSRP?

 

[Head Hunter]

15k off 4BW and under MSRP deals on 5BW? Can you share those leads.

Also when you say under MSRP for 5BW, is it $500 or $5000 off MSRP?

The OP had the 4BW's linked - I was calling every Cadillac dealership in the nation that showed having a 5BW M6 w CCB in stock to see if it really was "in stock" and wasn't "already sold" and most of them were trying to flip me to an A10 they had "great incentives on". Didn't bother to ask as I wasn't going to leave a C8 for an A105BW. There is a 120th A10 out there for over MSRP but hasn't sold and they've had it a while.

 

[vj123]

The OP had the 4BW's linked - I was calling every Cadillac dealership in the nation that showed having a 5BW M6 w CCB in stock to see if it really was "in stock" and wasn't "already sold" and most of them were trying to flip me to an A10 they had "great incentives on". Didn't bother to ask as I wasn't going to leave a C8 for an A105BW. There is a 120th A10 out there for over MSRP but hasn't sold and they've had it a while.

Dealer in OPs post have several 4BW autos, one with 13k discount, some with 5-6k and few without any which is really inconsistant. Even if the 13k discount is true, it might a one off dealer who might be trying to clear his inventory and would say the entire 4BW market is going down that bad.

Regarding 5BW, i have also come across several autos which is sitting in dealer inventory (especially north of $110k) but i have not seen any significant discounts so far.

 

[raptor5244]

Dealer in OPs post have several 4BW autos, one with 13k discount, some with 5-6k and few without any which is really inconsistant. Even if the 13k discount is true, it might a one off dealer who might be trying to clear his inventory and would say the entire 4BW market is going down that bad.

Regarding 5BW, i have also come across several autos which is sitting in dealer inventory (especially north of $110k) but i have not seen any significant discounts so far.

Correct, I don't see widespread discounts like that but they are coming down in price. The dealer sold one of the 4BWs they had listed for $16k off but it had $5k in dealer add-ons so depending how you look at it, more like $11k off depending on whether you valued the add-ons.

The Track Edition is still listed for $13k off. I think it is a bad combo. It is the Smurf Blue with Tan interior and automatic.

Here is another reference point for a slightly used 2022 4BW with A10 transmission and 4300 miles. Dealer has it listed for $64k, which you know means they took it in on trade for less than $60k. It was over $72k MSRP, which you know everyone was paying MSRP or higher in 2022.