CT4BW's Turning Off - Safety Risk

[BWDudeBro]

I left the negative terminal off the battery last night. Just went out and reconnected it and the car started right up. No CEL or errors are present. The digital cluster also works as normal. WTF

Also, did you have anything plugged in to the OBD2 port? You said stock, but maybe a code reader or an insurance dongle?

 

[DCV]

Could also be some sort of EMI problem where a spurious signal is generated by something, that’s picked up by the CAN bus, then transmitted along it causing the problem. I’ve had that happen on circuit boards I designed long ago wherein a spurious signal was being generated and causing a critical chip on the board to see it as a reset signal, that caused the whole thing to be shut down. To fix it I used a LS chip with slower logic that didn’t see the 10 nanosecond glitch as a reset pulse, that the AS chip did. These things are really hard to catch.

 

[Furinax]

Not sure how related my scenario is but coming home last night my dash lit up and the engine completely shut down (thankfully we were in the neighborhood already).

Started throwing lots of errors on the dash (like service axle). HVAC shot up to full blast and I couldn’t shut off the parking lights. I could not get the car to start after that.

I was able to jump start it and drive it down the road to the house but the digital cluster now doesn’t do anything. Like it’s on but rpms and speed don’t move, doesn’t show what gear I’m in, mileage just shows ————— and it says my fuel tank is completely empty.

I’m baffled. Stock car with 800 miles

That's crazy! I think that may be the worst case scenario with a digital dash. Definitely not safe to drive.

I've been going on 2k ish miles since the last incident and have had no incidents so far. I installed a dash cam to see if I can document it (apparently you need a witness) but so far it's been good. Only electrical glitch I've had is my backup camera sometimes not working.

I drive the car as much as possible and still enjoy it despite the issues. The car is so capable and can do everything so well, on top of being fun to drive. However there are always those moments where you feel like it's the last straw or maybe you lose confidence in your ability to control the car. GM must know about this issue since it's been happening since 2022 but since it's so hard to reproduce and diagnose, they might just be waiting for an actual major accident before they take any action. I hope one of the "engineers" who is researching this eventually finds the issue and they issue a recall.

 

[Nanci CT4 Blackwing]

You should show them this thread. I'm sorry this happened to you, Im sure that is very frustrating. Were there any options both cars had that could maybe contribute to this? PDR, any sort of plug in, etc.

Both cars had the Allstate insurance plug in. The first time they fixed it by changing the brake module. The second time I wouldn't drive it again. I have made a claim under the Florida Lemon Law. They just called me and told me it Allstate's fault and they have denied my lemon law claim because they said it is caused by an after market issue as opposed to a manufacturing defect. I need a lawyer.

 

[White Bread]

Ok, so an update. First off, I have nothing plugged into the OBD II port and never have.

It happened to me again today. Had been driving completely normal since the last episode until this afternoon. Stopped at the light in front of my neighborhood when suddenly I get the service rear axle error, plus numerous other errors on the dash (service ESC, anti-collision warning, TPMS, traction control, etc.), mileage indication goes blank, fuel goes to E, HVAC turns on full blast, and the revs show 0 rpm - this last is key.

When this happened the other night, I thought the car had actually shut off. Today I realized it was still running, just not showing any RPMs on the dash. It also closed the exhaust valves. Because of this I thought it actually shut off completely the other night.

As I continued to drive the .5 miles home from the light, the dash parameters magically came back to life, as did the exhaust sound - the CEL for service rear axle persisted. When I got it in the garage I cycled 3 engine starts/off and the CEL cleared.

Appointment scheduled with Cadillac for Thursday.

 

[raptor5244]

Ok, so an update. First off, I have nothing plugged into the OBD II port and never have.

It happened to me again today. Had been driving completely normal since the last episode until this afternoon. Stopped at the light in front of my neighborhood when suddenly I get the service rear axle error, plus numerous other errors on the dash (service ESC, anti-collision warning, TPMS, traction control, etc.), mileage indication goes blank, fuel goes to E, HVAC turns on full blast, and the revs show 0 rpm - this last is key.

When this happened the other night, I thought the car had actually shut off. Today I realized it was still running, just not showing any RPMs on the dash. It also closed the exhaust valves. Because of this I thought it actually shut off completely the other night.

As I continued to drive the .5 miles home from the light, the dash parameters magically came back to life, as did the exhaust sound - the CEL for service rear axle persisted. When I got it in the garage I cycled 3 engine starts/off and the CEL cleared.

Appointment scheduled with Cadillac for Thursday.

Sounds like you have software crash and restarts the system. Could be a bad control module, ground issue, etc. Just curious, I see you have a 2024, have you checked the infotainment system for any updates? What is the current version of software you are running?

Didn't the 2024s get some new animation setup on the dash? I wonder if the software is newer and possibly buggy?

 

[cgdigisco]

Both cars had the Allstate insurance plug in. The first time they fixed it by changing the brake module. The second time I wouldn't drive it again. I have made a claim under the Florida Lemon Law. They just called me and told me it Allstate's fault and they have denied my lemon law claim because they said it is caused by an after market issue as opposed to a manufacturing defect. I need a lawyer.

Wow, that's insane. Have you reached out to All State? This seems to be a Cadillac CT4V/Blackwing problem, but I am curious what their approach would be.

 

[cgdigisco]

Ok, so an update. First off, I have nothing plugged into the OBD II port and never have.

It happened to me again today. Had been driving completely normal since the last episode until this afternoon. Stopped at the light in front of my neighborhood when suddenly I get the service rear axle error, plus numerous other errors on the dash (service ESC, anti-collision warning, TPMS, traction control, etc.), mileage indication goes blank, fuel goes to E, HVAC turns on full blast, and the revs show 0 rpm - this last is key.

When this happened the other night, I thought the car had actually shut off. Today I realized it was still running, just not showing any RPMs on the dash. It also closed the exhaust valves. Because of this I thought it actually shut off completely the other night.

As I continued to drive the .5 miles home from the light, the dash parameters magically came back to life, as did the exhaust sound - the CEL for service rear axle persisted. When I got it in the garage I cycled 3 engine starts/off and the CEL cleared.

Appointment scheduled with Cadillac for Thursday.

Well, this beats my theory on it being the OBD II port. It is such a dangerous problem for Cadillac to not be all hands on deck here. How did the appointment go?

 

[bl4ck_wng]

So does this mean we are all clear to buy things that go into the OBD II port like a DTC assassin or a HPtuners Module?

 

[cgdigisco]

So does this mean we are all clear to buy things that go into the OBD II port like a DTC assassin or a HPtuners Module?

admittedly I would wait until cadillac gets this whole thing sorted. But that's just me

 

[Nanci CT4 Blackwing]

Wow, that's insane. Have you reached out to All State? This seems to be a Cadillac CT4V/Blackwing problem, but I am curious what their approach would be.

I spoke to Allstate. The owner of the agency researched it and there wasn't anything she could find through Allstate about their thingy causing this probelm. The dealer just called me to come pick the car up since there is nothing wrong. I told them I am not comfortable driving a car with no brakes and if this really was the problem, why did they tell me the first time that it was fixed when they changed the brake module?

 

[cgdigisco]

I spoke to Allstate. The owner of the agency researched it and there wasn't anything she could find through Allstate about their thingy causing this probelm. The dealer just called me to come pick the car up since there is nothing wrong. I told them I am not comfortable driving a car with no brakes and if this really was the problem, why did they tell me the first time that it was fixed when they changed the brake module?

Good line, what did they say to that? It's kind of crazy to me how we haven't gotten closer to fixing this, and that outside of this forum and the FB group it doesn't come up at all.

If I were Cadillac I'd give you a loaner, and run every single test imaginable until I figure out what's wrong.

 

[Nanci CT4 Blackwing]

Good line, what did they say to that? It's kind of crazy to me how we haven't gotten closer to fixing this, and that outside of this forum and the FB group it doesn't come up at all.

If I were Cadillac I'd give you a loaner, and run every single test imaginable until I figure out what's wrong.

I have had a loaner for 30 days. They claim they have figured it out, it is Allstate's fault. I am going to hire a lawyer and never buy a Cadillac or GM product again. We are good customers. I've had three Cadillacs and my husband has a Chevy truck.

 

[cgdigisco]

I have had a loaner for 30 days. They claim they have figured it out, it is Allstate's fault. I am going to hire a lawyer and never buy a Cadillac or GM product again. We are good customers. I've had three Cadillacs and my husband has a Chevy truck.

Sorry you're going through it - have you reached out to Cadillac corporate? It might be worth a shot to by pass a dealer altogether.

 

[Nanci CT4 Blackwing]

Sorry you're going through it - have you reached out to Cadillac corporate? It might be worth a shot to by pass a dealer altogether.

GM sent an engineer down who said it is the Allstate plug in. They are returning the car to me today, declaring it fixed and not their problem. I filed an official Lemon Law claim, which GM denied, saying it is not a manufacturing defect. I have an appointment with a lawyer on Thursday who specializes in Lemon Law claims. I now have a car that I refuse to drive for safety reasons.

 

[Professor Speed]

Sorry you're going through this. Before going to a lawyer, could you uninstall the AllState plug in and see if the issue is fixed?

 

[99sport]

On at least some models of sprinter van there is concensus that those insurance obd plugs don't play nice with the ECU - don't use them.

I'd suggest trying the GM engineer's advice for at least a little while before deciding the Allstate plug (which was probably designed and manufactured in China with little to no oversight by Allstate) is faultless.

Plus i don't understand why you'd want your insurance company tracking your driving habits in your 190mph car

From a shop owner with 50 years of repair experience:
"Hey guys
This week I have had three vehicles roll though the shop with ABS, Instrument panel issues and one lit up like a Christmas tree.

All three of these vehicles were Dodges, one a 2005 Sprinter.
In each case they had what we would call an OBD2 fault recorder, but this thing is a recording device plugged into the OBD2 diagnostic socket insurance companies to gauge your driving habits promising it seems lower premiums.

So far State Farm & Progressive are the clowns seemingly pedaling this idea, and all I can tell you is that in the case of a Sprinter and Dodge Durango it corrupted the Becm modules and the instrument clusters. So beware if these company's start mentioning it.

After fixing the Sprinter I felt like drop kicking the stupid thing like a good Auzzie No Rules Fooball player over the shop fence. Crooked the whole vehicle!
Expensive repair.
Beware Dennis"

DANGER ALERT - OBD Insurance Monitors

Hey guys This week I have had three vehicles roll though the shop with ABS, Instrument panel issues and one lit up like a Christmas tree. All three of these vehicles were Dodges, one a 2005 Sprinter. In each case they had what we would call an OBD2 fault recorder, but this thing is a recording...

sprinter-source.com

"Well guys here's my observations on this thing.

The unit is modifiable enough by individuals for starters to "fool" insurance company's data, so it begs the question are these devices cleared and passed off for your particular vehicle.

In the case of the Sprinter & the speedo instrument cluster, it took out the electronics and with the device removed from the OBD2 port the whole area was dead, plug it back in and the system was operative but the ABS wng light was illuminated; the reason why the van rolled in originally.

We had to replace and program in a used instrument pane; the bill was just shy of $1700.

I the case of the Dodge Durango, the whole instrument panel was dead , and no communication with the engine PCM either with the device installed or removed. The guages would only work with the device plugged in. We discoved the unit when we did a cursory scan to check for fault codes and ABS reported brake related issues by the customer.

This particular customer just elected to leave the device in place so that his gauges would work. Guys was pissed since there were no issues with the truck before he plugged it in.

So beware!"

Got this warning today from SAE.
"Dear SAE International Member,

We want to make you aware of an issue that was brought to our attention. Last week, we were notified that one of our members believes they had experienced an electronic issue with their vehicle after installing, voluntarily, an automatic OBDII monitoring device provided by one of our valued SAE International Membership Program Partners, Liberty Mutual. Similar devices are offered by several other auto insurance providers as an optional program that drivers may participate in to potentially lower insurance rates based on their driving patterns and behaviors. It is important to note that Liberty Mutual does not offer this program in all states and use of this device is not required in order to receive great SAE International Member-only discounts.

Liberty Mutual is currently assisting our member to investigate and resolve this issue. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact Liberty Mutual at 866.274.0892 or SAE International at 877.606.7323 (U.S. and Canada only) or 724.776.4970 (Outside U.S. and Canada).

Matt Creech
Business Unit Leader
Membership & Sections"

 

[Nanci CT4 Blackwing]

Sorry you're going through this. Before going to a lawyer, could you uninstall the AllState plug in and see if the issue is fixed?

Since it has happened three times in 2 different cars over about 3000 miles, there is no way to know if it is actually fixed if I take it out. It is completely random. And if it isn't fixed, I may end up in a serious accident.

 

[cgdigisco]

Since it has happened three times in 2 different cars over about 3000 miles, there is no way to know if it is actually fixed if I take it out. It is completely random. And if it isn't fixed, I may end up in a serious accident.

Did you have the plug in in both vehicles? 99Sport's response makes me thing the plug in causes chaos on more than just our cars.

 

[Nanci CT4 Blackwing]

Did you have the plug in in both vehicles? 99Sport's response makes me thing the plug in causes chaos on more than just our cars.

Yes, the plug in was on both cars. The first time it happened, they told me it was a brake module and they "fixed" it. Now, they say it is something else. The bottom line is if it isn't the plug in and I am driving the car the way it was made to drive, can I risk the brakes failing again?