CT4-V CT4 V blackwing vs RS3 6 months later

[Melon]

That's all too common. Many people 2.5L swap them.

 

[dinkman]

The real gem of the RS3 is the engine, and the lovely noise it makes. It's insanely quick out of the hole with quattro and AWD. But, at the end of the day, it's a hopped up GolfR. It's a great car, tons of fun, but not nearly as dynamic as the CT4. (I haven't driven a CT5)

As far as rattles...well, it's a GM. Be hopeful, but realistic. And to be clear, they have come leaps and bounds from a 2004 GM model. They feel genuinely quality now, just a few small issues here and there. I can live with that at the price point and the great handling.

see i felt the opposite. i test drove many rs3's before i bought my 4bw and despite the manual in the latter i still found the rs3 more engaging and fun. that engine and exhaust note are sooooo much better than 4bw. i thought the manual would have made up the difference but in the end i regretted my decision

 

[Melon]

see i felt the opposite. i test drove many rs3's before i bought my 4bw and despite the manual in the latter i still found the rs3 more engaging and fun. that engine and exhaust note are sooooo much better than 4bw. i thought the manual would have made up the difference but in the end i regretted my decision

Man, that sucks. Hopefully you can get into something you enjoy.

Really at that price point, RS3, M3, Alfa QF, CT4, it really comes down to which one you like the most. They're all excellent cars. I agree, an RS3 with a manual would have gotten my attention too. I'm really a big Euro fan, and have owned a few VW's. It was probably the front heavy and AWD throwing me off in regards to the RS3.

 

[dinkman]

Man, that sucks. Hopefully you can get into something you enjoy.

Really at that price point, RS3, M3, Alfa QF, CT4, it really comes down to which one you like the most. They're all excellent cars. I agree, an RS3 with a manual would have gotten my attention too. I'm really a big Euro fan, and have owned a few VW's. It was probably the front heavy and AWD throwing me off in regards to the RS3.

i traded down to a an S4 for now while i consider some options... maybe a c7 vette or c6 zl1 unless the right spec/price 5bw pops up then im jumping on it but its really been slim pickings since summer

 

[Melon]

I've driven the B8 S4, man it's a hoot.

 

[Roadhawk]

Man, that sucks. Hopefully you can get into something you enjoy.

Really at that price point, RS3, M3, Alfa QF, CT4, it really comes down to which one you like the most. They're all excellent cars. I agree, an RS3 with a manual would have gotten my attention too. I'm really a big Euro fan, and have owned a few VW's. It was probably the front heavy and AWD throwing me off in regards to the RS3.

I've followed the evolution of the RS3 since it first came out hopeful that one day a sportback with MT might make it to the US. Like many I was and still am intoxicated by the 5 cylinder engine (and its tuning potential). I felt the car would be a perfect replacement to my aging high mileage B5 S4 but alas it never came to be.

I considered a Golf R....but it lacked that very special engine and was too similar to the GTI I still own. So for a while I thought the M2 would be our next car but I wasn't quite ready to buy just yet. Then, two summers ago I was given a BMW M235I (front biased) as a loaner while our ZHP was at BMW for a redo on some work they kludged up.

Driving the M235 made me realize that the ZHP (and GTI) were both feeling just a bit long in the tooth and made me hanker for a new car. The M235 was not going to be the solution for a variety of reasons (I told the BMW guys it felt to me like I was driving a Camry) and I was also starting to panic about the dearth of MT sports cars. One look at the new M2 in the showroom convinced me as well that it was not going to be our next car. So what to do?

I started considering what MT sporty cars were still being sold. Wife nixed the idea of a used car and also wouldn't let me consider a 2 seater - thus the BoxsterS - which is what I really have wanted all along for many years wasn't in the cards (though I had high hopes for the Abarth Miata clone that never materialized in performance....I even joined a forum in hopes of discovering potential for more powerful future alternatives).

I then discovered the CT 4 V BW that I never knew existed. I was aware of and highly appreciative of the ATS-V but always thought of it as too large and heavy a car for me. But after consuming all print and YouTube reviews of the 4 BW I quickly concluded this would be our next car and it pretty quickly came to pass.

Do I have any regrets? Yes, often I do, I am still wistful/wishful WRT the RS3 that never happened....and I often feel the prior M2 comp might be better suited for me (but not for my wife I get that)....and my....I;m still wishing I were driving a Boxster S (prior iteration....maybe 2015 or thereabouts vintage) but overall I have no real complaints WRT the 4 BW. Its such a great car that checks (nearly) all the boxes. I wish it were a bit smaller and lighter...but I'm so happy to have a car that performs as it does, is as refined and comfortable as it is, is made in USA! and of course MT baby!!!!

 

[Melon]

I've followed the evolution of the RS3 since it first came out hopeful that one day a sportback with MT might make it to the US. Like many I was and still am intoxicated by the 5 cylinder engine (and its tuning potential). I felt the car would be a perfect replacement to my aging high mileage B5 S4 but alas it never came to be.

I considered a Golf R....but it lacked that very special engine and was too similar to the GTI I still own. So for a while I thought the M2 would be our next car but I wasn't quite ready to buy just yet. Then, two summers ago I was given a BMW M235I (front biased) as a loaner while our ZHP was at BMW for a redo on some work they kludged up.

Driving the M235 made me realize that the ZHP (and GTI) were both feeling just a bit long in the tooth and made me hanker for a new car. The M235 was not going to be the solution for a variety of reasons (I told the BMW guys it felt to me like I was driving a Camry) and I was also starting to panic about the dearth of MT sports cars. One look at the new M2 in the showroom convinced me as well that it was not going to be our next car. So what to do?

I started considering what MT sporty cars were still being sold. Wife nixed the idea of a used car and also wouldn't let me consider a 2 seater - thus the BoxsterS - which is what I really have wanted all along for many years wasn't in the cards (though I had high hopes for the Abarth Miata clone that never materialized in performance....I even joined a forum in hopes of discovering potential for more powerful future alternatives).

I then discovered the CT 4 V BW that I never knew existed. I was aware of and highly appreciative of the ATS-V but always thought of it as too large and heavy a car for me. But after consuming all print and YouTube reviews of the 4 BW I quickly concluded this would be our next car and it pretty quickly came to pass.

Do I have any regrets? Yes, often I do, I am still wistful/wishful WRT the RS3 that never happened....and I often feel the prior M2 comp might be better suited for me (but not for my wife I get that)....and my....I;m still wishing I were driving a Boxster S (prior iteration....maybe 2015 or thereabouts vintage) but overall I have no real complaints WRT the 4 BW. Its such a great car that checks (nearly) all the boxes. I wish it were a bit smaller and lighter...but I'm so happy to have a car that performs as it does, is as refined and comfortable as it is, is made in USA! and of course MT baby!!!!

RS3 Sportback + Manual would be epic. Any Audi avant + manual would be welcomed, but probably wouldn't sell well. I still eye the Golf Allttracks that pop up on Bat with a 6MT.

The new M2 doesn't do much for me, I've even seen them in person, and while they look decent in person the F87 will always be the one I think of when I think of a desirable M2.

Also, after driving crap boxes for years, mostly trying to be a petrol head on the cheap, and spending more time wrenching than driving, I had the same conclusion you did. Old stuff is old, and newer cars really do show tte progress of engineering and technology. The car that really did this for me was the new (current model) GR86 (A car I still adore) and the ND Miata. They were about as quick and handled well like my E36 M3, but also had working A/C, no rattles, etc. One day after chasing and failing to fix a VANOS CEL, I just decided enough was enough and put an order down on a car I had my eye on for a long time. Camaro SS 1LE. Year and a half later it got totalled, and while shopping I went down a similiar path. M2? Nah, M3? Too much with the options I wanted. I love the Integra Type S, but it's a hard pill to swallow at $54k.

I wasn't even shopping for a CT4 BW (It was out of my price range, and my only comparable driving experience was the 1LE) I looked for used, and then one popped up with the exact options and specs I wanted. Screw it, I bought a new one.

I'm craving another project, maybe a 987.2 or 981 Boxster S that needs an engine swap or something. But I'm really happy with my current garage. I have a GMC Canyon for the haul, E30 for the 80's analog, and a modern sports sedan for the rest.

 

[Todd]

You think that until you actually drive it and live with it…….then find out it’s actually a fairly boring car to DD.

I second that opinion, having owned an RS6 for the last few years.

Came from an AMG E63S wagon. The RS6 is soft and boring by comparison, despite the "specs".

Very comfortable daily driver, and long distance cruiser, but... boring.

The appearance though, that's where I never get tired. It's a great looking ride.

5BW 6sp on order, supposedly getting built this week. I'll hang onto both for a bit and then see who will be staying.

 

[Roadhawk]

RS3 Sportback + Manual would be epic. Any Audi avant + manual would be welcomed, but probably wouldn't sell well. I still eye the Golf Allttracks that pop up on Bat with a 6MT.

The new M2 doesn't do much for me, I've even seen them in person, and while they look decent in person the F87 will always be the one I think of when I think of a desirable M2.

Also, after driving crap boxes for years, mostly trying to be a petrol head on the cheap, and spending more time wrenching than driving, I had the same conclusion you did. Old stuff is old, and newer cars really do show tte progress of engineering and technology. The car that really did this for me was the new (current model) GR86 (A car I still adore) and the ND Miata. They were about as quick and handled well like my E36 M3, but also had working A/C, no rattles, etc. One day after chasing and failing to fix a VANOS CEL, I just decided enough was enough and put an order down on a car I had my eye on for a long time. Camaro SS 1LE. Year and a half later it got totalled, and while shopping I went down a similiar path. M2? Nah, M3? Too much with the options I wanted. I love the Integra Type S, but it's a hard pill to swallow at $54k.

I wasn't even shopping for a CT4 BW (It was out of my price range, and my only comparable driving experience was the 1LE) I looked for used, and then one popped up with the exact options and specs I wanted. Screw it, I bought a new one.

I'm craving another project, maybe a 987.2 or 981 Boxster S that needs an engine swap or something. But I'm really happy with my current garage. I have a GMC Canyon for the haul, E30 for the 80's analog, and a modern sports sedan for the rest.

I agree with all and appreciate you. I respect and appreciate the Camaros but never considered one - visibility and size issues mainly and my wife is adverse to two door cars. Your E36 is super sweet BTW.

My youngest son has a pretty tricked out 1st gen GR86 that I occasionally drive and enjoy and my eldest used to have a 1st gen Miata that was a hoot. I've at times felt an ND Miata might be a great car to own and drive but I'm also a power fiend so it never quite did it for me in the end....thus my hopes for that Abarth version that never came to be. The prior BoxsterS would be the perfect car IMO.....alas....not really in the market as my wife thinks we have too many cars as it is. I've also long had interest in the M coup Z3 from the late 1990s (and Viggen's specifically! LOL) but I'm not a mechanic and an older car like that is not really for me I think.

Likewise I used to own a 1st gen supercharged MR2 - most fun car I've ever owned) and often think a 2nd gen )modded) MR2 would be a blast to own. My neighbor bought and still daily drives my old MR2 BTW....and another neighbor bought my S4 and has put nearly $30K into it but its yet to be finished to his specs so is not back out there yet.

 

[Roadhawk]

I second that opinion, having owned an RS6 for the last few years.

Came from an AMG E63S wagon. The RS6 is soft and boring by comparison, despite the "specs".

Very comfortable daily driver, and long distance cruiser, but... boring.

The appearance though, that's where I never get tired. It's a great looking ride.

5BW 6sp on order, supposedly getting built this week. I'll hang onto both for a bit and then see who will be staying.

I've long had the suspicion that the RS6 is exactly as you describe it - regardless of performance specs. Shame.

My (MT) B5 S4 Avant was anything but boring. Reviews from the time suggested it wasn't an engaging car - they were so wrong. Of course when I bought mine used it was already Stage 2 and within a year I had replaced/upgraded the turbos as well as coilovers/suspension and added a nice Stoptech brake kit. Car was a monster and great fun to drive. I really surprised a hard charging Boxster S once when I passed him on some (4 lane) twisities at high speed holding the road at speed better then he could.

I think you'll find the 5 BW very engaging in all the right ways and probably will dump that (boding) RS6 pretty quickly....let us know how it turns out.

 

[obeykube]

It's funny, we always complain about not having enough options as enthusiasts for new cars, and then once there is 2-3 options in a certain class we fill up forum pages trying to decide between them and crown a victor while all the other options are "lesser" hurting public opinion and basically telling companies "nope not good enough". And with low production number cars already, they aren't going to take that criticism as a challenge to be better, they are just going to cancel it lol.

There's a reason you own multiple pairs of shoes or jackets. They all serve a different purpose. If I had f#%k you money, I'd have 17 different cars all serving unique purposes, so they all get driven on days/in situations that serve them best.

Being from Long Island, and only wanting one car since my wife needs two (horse hobby, so we need a hauler), I found that a...
-comfortable (Long Island roads, if you haven't seen them before, just google the lunar surface and draw some white lines on it)
-fast (mostly highway driving that is fun to have top end power with)
-agile (I have so much highway driving that when I see one corner I turn into my best impression of Senna)
-manual (the only option really)
-Sedan (My only car, wanted to be able to fit 3 adults if I needed too)

is what I was looking for, and the Blackwing is my favorite filling in those needs. If I had two cars, lived somewhere with perfect roads and a lot more areas to be a complete baboon, I'd probably drive an M2 comp.

But again, that's what is amazing about choice, we have it. And I for one wish we had more!!! But all these cars are fantastic.

 

[Roadhawk]

Its funny, both of my neighbors who each bought one of my prior cars at one time recently each owned exactly 17 cars - really exactly 17. They drive a bunch of them (like you said for different purposes) but many are race (autocross) cars and/or project cars. One had 2 1st gen NSXs (non drivable) that he was planning to homogenize into 1 but decided he had too many projects so sold them both. They have been downsizing of late but still have around a dozen cars each. Two of them used to be mine. And they each sold a car to each of my sons....

We should be appreciative that we have the means to own more than one car as many don't have the luxury....

 

[Melon]

I agree with all and appreciate you. I respect and appreciate the Camaros but never considered one - visibility and size issues mainly and my wife is adverse to two door cars. Your E36 is super sweet BTW.

My youngest son has a pretty tricked out 1st gen GR86 that I occasionally drive and enjoy and my eldest used to have a 1st gen Miata that was a hoot. I've at times felt an ND Miata might be a great car to own and drive but I'm also a power fiend so it never quite did it for me in the end....thus my hopes for that Abarth version that never came to be. The prior BoxsterS would be the perfect car IMO.....alas....not really in the market as my wife thinks we have too many cars as it is. I've also long had interest in the M coup Z3 from the late 1990s (and Viggen's specifically! LOL) but I'm not a mechanic and an older car like that is not really for me I think.

Likewise I used to own a 1st gen supercharged MR2 - most fun car I've ever owned) and often think a 2nd gen )modded) MR2 would be a blast to own. My neighbor bought and still daily drives my old MR2 BTW....and another neighbor bought my S4 and has put nearly $30K into it but its yet to be finished to his specs so is not back out there yet.

E36 was sold for the Camaro, fun car, but it had 185k miles on it, and always needed something despite me having gone through all the systems. I even did a full top end rebuild, cylinder head off.

I would have loved a Z3M with the S52, plenty of power without the S54 price premium.

I really liked the second gen GR86, it feels exactly like the E36 did, but tighter. It is a small car, and at the time when I was shopping I was 360lbs. I've since lost the weight (@ 195) but still, being 6'-2" limits my options.

HAHA, I get being a power fiend, I wanted that GM V8 feel again, I had a C5 and man, it's just fun to rip.

Another thing that led me to a super sedan was driving an E39 M5, man, dated now, but what a perfect machine.
One reason I love the CT4 over the 1LE is it's very understated in it's looks, much like the older M cars.

 

[Melon]

It's funny, we always complain about not having enough options as enthusiasts for new cars, and then once there is 2-3 options in a certain class we fill up forum pages trying to decide between them and crown a victor while all the other options are "lesser" hurting public opinion and basically telling companies "nope not good enough". And with low production number cars already, they aren't going to take that criticism as a challenge to be better, they are just going to cancel it lol.

There's a reason you own multiple pairs of shoes or jackets. They all serve a different purpose. If I had f#%k you money, I'd have 17 different cars all serving unique purposes, so they all get driven on days/in situations that serve them best.

Being from Long Island, and only wanting one car since my wife needs two (horse hobby, so we need a hauler), I found that a...
-comfortable (Long Island roads, if you haven't seen them before, just google the lunar surface and draw some white lines on it)
-fast (mostly highway driving that is fun to have top end power with)
-agile (I have so much highway driving that when I see one corner I turn into my best impression of Senna)
-manual (the only option really)
-Sedan (My only car, wanted to be able to fit 3 adults if I needed too)

is what I was looking for, and the Blackwing is my favorite filling in those needs. If I had two cars, lived somewhere with perfect roads and a lot more areas to be a complete baboon, I'd probably drive an M2 comp.

But again, that's what is amazing about choice, we have it. And I for one wish we had more!!! But all these cars are fantastic.

I feel called out! HAHA. Us car guys will always complain. We are a very picky lot.
I need more money and mostly garage space.

Also, before I got my C5 I was looking at GTO's like the one in your avatar. I have a thing for blue.

 

[Melon]

Also, it's not surprising to find a lot of Euro fans on the CT4/5 train.
GM was definitely peeking over BMW's shoulder when engineering these cars.
They really are the evolution of the E39/E46 chassis. E90 was also a great car, that 4.0L V8, hnnng.

 

[Roadhawk]

E39 M5 (great car) was always too big and $$$ for me at the time....I'm very happy with my ZHP. I considered an E46 M3 at the time but I did a Euro delivery and BMW wasn't giving the 7% discount. I bought the ZHP new for $33K which was a great deal. ZHP is plenty quick and its still a very engaging car. i took it out yesterday and just wailed on it with great satisfaction.

 

[Melon]

E39 M5 (great car) was always too big and $$$ for me at the time....I'm very happy with my ZHP. I considered an E46 M3 at the time but I did a Euro delivery and BMW wasn't giving the 7% discount. I bought the ZHP new for $33K which was a great deal. ZHP is plenty quick and its still a very engaging car. i took it out yesterday and just wailed on it with great satisfaction.

The M54 is such a great engine as well. Fun to thrash on.

 

[Melon]

Grandfather and Grandson.

 

[obeykube]

I feel called out! HAHA. Us car guys will always complain. We are a very picky lot.
I need more money and mostly garage space.

Also, before I got my C5 I was looking at GTO's like the one in your avatar. I have a thing for blue.

Absolutely 0 call out was intended lol, trust me, I completely understand and am guilty of the same thing, I just find it funny.

I had that car (06 GTO, 6.0, 6speed, blue with black interior) for a year. Bought it off bring a trailer. Loved the car like it was my first puppy. Did a 3 step correction on the paint, ceramic coated, fully restored the interior, replaced anything needed, and drove the shit out of it. Loved it, wife hated it. It was violent.

Grandma with tires to bald they were racing slicks made a right turn too fast, slid into me while stopped at a red light. Popped the clutch in reverse to avoid any major damage, but the headlight had a crack. Took me 6+ months to find a headlight.

After that ordeal, it felt like I needed to put the car in a bubble and never touch it again, because I was afraid of being able to find anything that needed to be fixed. So, I sold it, and my 18 S4 (both for a profit, thanks COVID) and bought the blackwing. Honestly....haven't even thought about either of them since I got my 4V.

 

[Melon]

Yeah, old lady turned left in front of me. RIP my 1LE.
We both walked away, really the best thing I can hope for.

I liked the Camaro, but I LOVE the CT4.