What made you choose a Blackwing and what else did you consider?

[FISH22]

During the 2 years of ownership of my G80 M3 Competition, I was always casually reading up on similar vehicles. At the end of the day, I wanted something that stirred me like my old manual E90 M3 did years ago. I have been an M car guy most of my adult life. But IMO, as the M division transitioned to turbo engines, and the tech started to increase, they lost their edge (pretty standard for any modern car).

Then comes the manual 5BW. Without a doubt, the BEST car I have ever owned. While much heavier, it is extremely reminiscent of my old E90.. just with 250 more hp.

I am still always looking at German competitors. Right now, my dream sedan is the M5CS, just a bit out of my price range. Beyond happy with the 5BW. A real “forever” car.

 

[dinkman]

#tell me you are in accounting/finance without telling me you are in accounting/finance.

close... engineering

 

[dinkman]

During the 2 years of ownership of my G80 M3 Competition, I was always casually reading up on similar vehicles. At the end of the day, I wanted something that stirred me like my old manual E90 M3 did years ago. I have been an M car guy most of my adult life. But IMO, as the M division transitioned to turbo engines, and the tech started to increase, they lost their edge (pretty standard for any modern car).

Then comes the manual 5BW. Without a doubt, the BEST car I have ever owned. While much heavier, it is extremely reminiscent of my old E90.. just with 250 more hp.

I am still always looking at German competitors. Right now, my dream sedan is the M5CS, just a bit out of my price range. Beyond happy with the 5BW. A real “forever” car.

similar situation. have owned 10+ M cars, most e36 and e90's. did not enjoy the f80 m3 comp very much. i do fear the 4bw will be similar as my issue with that car was partly the turbos and question whether i'm making a mistake by not just getting the 5bw instead
but i just dont need that much power with 98% of driving just back and forth to work/gym/train station
why didnt they just make the 4bw with NA lt! haha

 

[rubberduck]

close... engineering

I’m a long time engineer and also very data/analysis driven. When modding my Jeep I made a spreadsheet of axle/t-case/tranny ratios related to crawl ratio, speed in grears, and RPMs.

With the Blackwing it took me exactly one evening of watching YouTube videos to start calling the next morning looking for a 5BW. That was early 2022 and they were hard to come by. The dealer laughed when I asked them if I could see one. Placed an order with no test drive and the first time I saw one in person was the one I bought from my dealer. Over 1 1/2 years later and the car still gives me the first date thrill. Sometimes intuition trumps everything else. In fact these days, I use my intuition more than anything else to solve engineering problems.

 

[Roadhawk]

Love your spreadsheet dinkman - what a nice summary depiction. If the RS2 had MT I'd probably already be in one. Same might be true for an M240i...mot as enamored with the new M2 (and again MT for me is a must). BMW 3 series has gotten too big for me (but I'm coming around on the looks). Already owning (an older) GTI I wasn't into the idea of another or a Golf R (as practical and right for me size wise). 5 BW too big for me and more than I'm willing to spend. 4 BW just about right - but big and heavy - for me....still what a fine car and very glad to have picked one up. Your going to love it and I think you made the right choice.

I really like the Integra S - but I'm always bitching about FWD in my GTI - as much as I love the car.

Bought our 4 BW without having ever driven or even sat in one (just test drove the CTV which I pretty much didn't like at all).I heavily consumed all the reviews - including the multitude you tube videos - and they made it clear to me this was the car to have. I'm very happy with it.

 

[dinkman]

Love your spreadsheet dinkman - what a nice summary depiction. If the RS2 had MT I'd probably already be in one. Same might be true for an M240i...mot as enamored with the new M2 (and again MT for me is a must). BMW 3 series has gotten too big for me (but I'm coming around on the looks). Already owning (an older) GTI I wasn't into the idea of another or a Golf R (as practical and right for me size wise). 5 BW too big for me and more than I'm willing to spend. 4 BW just about right - but big and heavy - for me....still what a fine car and very glad to have picked one up. Your going to love it and I think you made the right choice.

I really like the Integra S - but I'm always bitching about FWD in my GTI - as much as I love the car.

Bought our 4 BW without having ever driven or even sat in one (just test drove the CTV which I pretty much didn't like at all).I heavily consumed all the reviews - including the multitude you tube videos - and they made it clear to me this was the car to have. I'm very happy with it.

yea sucks most german cars dont come in manuals any more and i just couldnt convince myself to go back to an fwd car or spend nearly 4bw money on a golf R

 

[Neveready]

During the 2 years of ownership of my G80 M3 Competition, I was always casually reading up on similar vehicles. At the end of the day, I wanted something that stirred me like my old manual E90 M3 did years ago. I have been an M car guy most of my adult life. But IMO, as the M division transitioned to turbo engines, and the tech started to increase, they lost their edge (pretty standard for any modern car).

Then comes the manual 5BW. Without a doubt, the BEST car I have ever owned. While much heavier, it is extremely reminiscent of my old E90.. just with 250 more hp.

I am still always looking at German competitors. Right now, my dream sedan is the M5CS, just a bit out of my price range. Beyond happy with the 5BW. A real “forever” car.

What were some of the reasons you sold your E90 M3?

 

[bloominguez]

i've observed that the older I get the more methodical and less spontaneous I am with my purchases.
I remember in 2008 I drove my friend to pick up his X5M he had just bought from white plans bmw. During that trip they had a new M3 sedan on the showroom floor. That same friend also owned the previous gen M3 with the I6 and I was not a fan how it sounded one bit. I asked the sales guy to turn the car on so we could hear the v8 and within a few minutes he was filling out second sales order paperwork.

Fast forward to 2023 and I've probably spent 6-9 months research the following different cars before settling on a 4BW

car	msrp	reasons why	reasons why not	manual	drive	hp/torque	rank
CT4-V BW	65000	great drivers car, great manual		yes	rwd	472/445	1
RS3	65600	exotic engine	markup		awd	400/370	2
C43 AMG	67000				awd	385/385	3
S4	57000				awd	350/370	5
m340i	63500				awd	380/370	4
M3	80000	drivetrain	fucking ugly	yes	rwd/awd	503/480	6
S3	52000		meh		awd	306/295	7
Golf GTI	40100	not luxury nor sporty	fwd, low spec	yes	fwd	240/270	8
Golf R	46000		expensive for a Golf, markup	yes	awd	315/295	9
Integra Type S	53000	great manual	fwd, meh	yes	fwd	320/310	10
IS350	48500	very dated interior	meh		awd	310/280	11
GR Corolla	41500	great drivers car	expensive, low budget interior, wait time/markup	yes	awd	300/270	12

I've gone and looked at/test driven most of them. watched dozen+ youtube reviews of all of them. browsed/lurked the forums for most of them etc I cant imagine the hours I've spent/wasted lol

ultimately decided on the 4BW as I really wanted a manual daily driver again. I dont drive my weekend toy that has an even better manual in it than the caddy to fill that void in my life. Otherwise the RS3 (likely the previous gen not current due to tuning pontential) was hands down what I was going with.

I'm now just 4 days awau from 4bw being delivered to the dealer (supposedly) after having left Michigan on transport nearly two months ago and I cant wait for the journey to conclude

Nice list! My recent analysis was much easier. I'd scratch off half the cars because they don't have manual transmissions. I'd scratch off any BMWs because of the rubbery transmissions, perceived low quality (I owned one, stuff just broke--little stuff and big stuff, all the time--yes, just one sample but still), and I don't like the interior design or the exterior looks anymore (they had both dialed in 10 years ago or so). I'd scratch off the VWs because of excessive reliance on bad touchscreens and rubbery shifters.

3rd place would have been the 4BW ... but I already have a 5BW so it's too similar.

Integra Type S is fantastic, but it's too refined for what I want. At this point I'm only buying impractical cars.

Ended up buying a GR Corolla just before 2023 ended, when a local dealer was motivated to sell. I'm in love with the way it drives. But the interior is awful, and the programming in the car is also awful. Toyota spent all their time and money on the drivetrain, everything else in that car is an afterthought. And yet it's exactly what I wanted.


Edit: I also love the Subaru BRZ / Toyota GR 86. Only reason it's not on my list is because one of my daughters is buying one, should be here any day.

 

[dinkman]

I’m a long time engineer and also very data/analysis driven. When modding my Jeep I made a spreadsheet of axle/t-case/tranny ratios related to crawl ratio, speed in grears, and RPMs.

With the Blackwing it took me exactly one evening of watching YouTube videos to start calling the next morning looking for a 5BW. That was early 2022 and they were hard to come by. The dealer laughed when I asked them if I could see one. Placed an order with no test drive and the first time I saw one in person was the one I bought from my dealer. Over 1 1/2 years later and the car still gives me the first date thrill. Sometimes intuition trumps everything else. In fact these days, I use my intuition more than anything else to solve engineering problems.

damn it now you got me looking at 5BW ads, just when i thought i had it figured out

 

[Roadhawk]

Integra Type S is fantastic, but it's too refined for what I want. At this point I'm only buying impractical cars.

Ended up buying a GR Corolla just before 2023 ended, when a local dealer was motivated to sell. I'm in love with the way it drives. But the interior is awful, and the programming in the car is also awful. Toyota spent all their time and money on the drivetrain, everything else in that car is an afterthought. And yet it's exactly what I wanted.

Enjoy your GR Corolla...I can certainly see the appeal. You'd like my GTI - OK its got leather seats...but its not refined at all really....Its a noisy little canyon carving monster. In certain conditions I can spin tires in 5 of 6 gears. I've done many handling/chassis stiffening upgrades and its just a screamer...very akin to the GR I think. I just love driving and wailing on it.

 

[Roadhawk]

damn it now you got me looking at 5BW ads, just when i thought i had it figured out

Sure the 5 is an absolute monster and unless you tune the 4 it will never quite be that. I think the 4 will be generally more fun and easier to push without getting very illegal. I get the appeal of the 5 - in many ways...but to me the 4 is the better option for most IMO.

 

[Champale]

dinkman - you will LOVE your 4BW I promise. I recently test drove a 4BW 6sp shortly after taking delivery of my 5BW 6sp and was blown away by the driving sharpness of the 4 vs the 5 and posted my thoughts in another thread.

CT4-V Blackwing...kind of slow

Anybody else feel like these cars are kind of slow? On youtube it gets smoked by everything comparable to it (Camaro SS, BMW M-cars and even the M340i). When I give it gas on the streets it feels heavy and I can't really feel the power. I feel like there needs to be some sort of factory revision...

www.cadillacvnet.com

I will add that I am loving my 5 more and more as I get some miles under my belt. It's such an animal! But the 4BW is simply incredible to drive - it's hard to believe it's a 3800lb sedan when you drive it because it drives like a much smaller, lighter car. And I say this as someone who owns a Lotus Evora 400 and has owned all manner of light-ish rally style cars (WRX, 3 Mitsubishi Evos, Focus RS, Civic Type R).

 

[rubberduck]

Sure the 5 is an absolute monster and unless you tune the 4 it will never quite be that. I think the 4 will be generally more fun and easier to push without getting very illegal. I get the appeal of the 5 - in many ways...but to me the 4 is the better option for most IMO.

It precisely why it’s so outrageous that makes it fun. It’s not for everyone, especially younger drivers that have not sown their oaks yet and got to know the Police and court system. If self-control is an issue and cruising is not your style this car will eat you alive.

 

[FISH22]

What were some of the reasons you sold your E90 M3?

Primarily, numbness. As a daily, it was fantastic. The car just lacked character. However, it was an absolute monster, and gave me a little more confidence compared to the 5BW. The 5BW requires a lot more work and patience, especially being a manual. The G80 just felt like the car was driving me. I need to be completely engaged in the 5BW while pushing it (which I love).

I don’t want to call the G80 boring, but it lost its specialness within a couple months. Then I started throwing lots of money at it. Mostly aero, exhaust, wheels and suspension. That kept me engaged for a few more months, then got bored again. Put 19k miles on that car.

Now, I’m 8 months into the 5BW with no real desire to offload it. That’s just how much more special it feels compared to the G80; I credit that completely to the LT4 and manual gearbox.

The one G80 that is always catching my eye, is the new CS. From reviews, it seems to be alive compared to the Comp/Base.

I’ll likely be in another M car down the road, but it would likely be another E9x.

 

[Roadhawk]

dinkman the 4BW is simply incredible to drive - it's hard to believe it's a 3800lb sedan when you drive it because it drives like a much smaller, lighter car. And I say this as someone who owns a Lotus Evora 400 and has owned all manner of light-ish rally style cars (WRX, 3 Mitsubishi Evos, Focus RS, Civic Type R).

Some statement - particularly considering the small-ish great power/handling cars you've had.

Got to love and respect the EVO (3 of them - lol). Back in the day in one of the Audi forums I was in an S4 owner who also owned an EVO and frequently (acuratly) claimed how easy it was to make it much faster than our S4s etc. While I get that I have to say I wnet up against 2 modded EVOs and beat them both in my S4 (just sayin)...if only by a hair each time. I also took every WRX/STI I encountered...once with a canoe on top and 3 bikes on the back. He was racing some speed bike and they both pulled up to me at the light. I took them both off the line until the bike blew past me up on its back wheel. STI never did catch me.

I really like those smaller nimble but fast cars. While the 4 BW isn't quite that it does make a preety good impresion of one in they way the chassis and grip perform. The fact that its not such a beast as the 5 (which also handles it better than other cars in its class) is really why I prefer it and that its more of the car for me. I even thought my S4 Avant was too big & heavy even though others who drove it always commented how small feeling and nimble it was.

 

[Roadhawk]

It precisely why it’s so outrageous that makes it fun. It’s not for everyone, especially younger drivers that have not sown their oaks yet and got to know the Police and court system. If self-control is an issue and cruising is not your style this car will eat you alive.

No doubt.

 

[FISH22]

What were some of the reasons you sold your E90 M3?

I realized you asked about the E90, not the G80, sorry!

Sold that back in 2016 due to work. Wanted a vehicle I didn’t mind beating up (military utilizing range roads).

Since then, complete regret. If I knew what they would fetch today, I would have never sold it. It was AW over Fox Red, 6MT, slick roof, Comp, with 30k miles. Just perfect.

 

[FISH22]

similar situation. have owned 10+ M cars, most e36 and e90's. did not enjoy the f80 m3 comp very much. i do fear the 4bw will be similar as my issue with that car was partly the turbos and question whether i'm making a mistake by not just getting the 5bw instead
but i just dont need that much power with 98% of driving just back and forth to work/gym/train station
why didnt they just make the 4bw with NA lt! haha

M cars will always be my true love. Without a doubt one of the most incredible branded cars on the road.

I hear you on the 4BW. I was very close to getting the 4, for multiple reasons. The 5 is most definitely a handful and I rarely have the opportunity to completely open her up, and I live out in the country.

The 5 is really just the LT4, and that’s why I’m glad I got it. I’m a V8 fanatic, and it’s just so heavenly sounding. The backseat room is also welcomed for my kids.

 

[Champale]

The beautiful parts of the Evos are the steering, chassis, and easy 4 wheel drifts! Yes, guys boost them to 700+hp but even with stock power, you can destroy pretty much every other car made on a bumpy, twisty backroad. The confidence they give you to push harder through corners is pretty much unparalled.

 

[Roadhawk]

I'll pretty much never sell of E46 ZHP...its just so perfect and small and nimble enough to always be fun.