I’ve found the secret sauce (track pads)

[travysh]

The pad deposits / "resurfacing" makes a ton of sense and aligns with my (CT5) experience as well.

I had pad deposits that took nearly a month of street driving to clear. So far I have only had pad deposits following Buttonwillow on June 6. Not sure if it was because of the track layout, the heat (100F+), my unfamiliarity with the track, or a combination of all of the above

I have not had deposits (vibrations) following any of the sessions at Ridge Motorsports Park.

(Likewise, the general efficiency with how well the pad reaching max braking force makes sense too. I suppose what I'm not sure about is more where our OEM pads differ from aftermarket in those situations. But the more I read this thread the more it generally makes sense. The OEM pads seem to be track leaning but aren't track pads, which in turn means they give up some durability and potentially leave additional deposits vs a track focused pad which would in turn be harsher on the rotor in daily usage)

 

[Matt27]

Something else to consider is making sure you get a solid cool-down lap or two and avoid using the parking brake or otherwise using your brakes to hold the car after a session.

Hot pads/rotors, stationary and engaged is a recipie for nasty pad deposits.

 

[almazing]

Something else to consider is making sure you get a solid cool-down lap or two and avoid using the parking brake or otherwise using your brakes to hold the car after a session.

Hot pads/rotors, stationary and engaged is a recipie for nasty pad deposits.

Thanks for reminding me to bring my wheel chocks for tomorrow’s TNIA. I forgot them the last time I was on track.

 

[techdude99]

Several years ago, I’ve posted here about the Magic Pads (part 1) at the Camaro6 forum which were one of my favorite track pads for my 6Gen Camaro – Raybestos ST43. A lot have changed since then and Raybestos started to disappear from the track market. This review is based on the CT4 Blackwing.

As a background, I’ve been tracking various high horsepower / heavy cars in the past 10+ years and I’m currently running in the advance group with several organizations such as PCA and BMW.

A few months ago, I’ve seen a post about a new compound from EBC which claims to change the approach for track pads. They’ve created a pad using Sintered Technology, which is widely used in the motorcycle world, but have yet to be used for automobiles. This technology is supposed to increase pad life and to eliminate the bedding process (just drive 2 laps on the track and you are good to go).

In the past, I’ve used other track pads offered by EBC, but I’ve found them to be a better fit for lighter / lower HP cars.

I’ve been thru so many pads in the past years – from stock, Carbotech , Gloc, Ferodo , Pagid , PFC and more. These EBC SR series pads are THE NEW MAGIC PAD. I’ve chose to use the lower friction compound, SR11, which has a crazy linear torque curve (around 0.50 MU). These pads will smash your face into the windshield and are more than enough for aggressive street tires. If you are riding on slicks, you can try their SR21, but in my opinion, SR11 are already aggressive enough for 200TW tires and maybe even more. Modulation was pretty good for such high torque. It took me a couple of days of street driving to get used to it and I was good to go (in the Blackwing it’s better to set the brake pedal for track mode even for street driving).

Now – to the magic part: in the past, I would get no more than 4 days on a track pad. They would just get worn out / get tapered / create a bad rotor judder.

I’m happy to announce that after 3 hard days at VIR (very aggressive on pads), I’ve measured the pads and they lost anywhere from zero to 1 mm in thickness. My rotors lost 1-2 tenths of mm in thickness (similar to the wear I got after a track weekend with stock pads) and more than that – they didn’t even develop thin heat checks!

I’ve let a pro driver try these pads on my car for 1 session and he was pleasantly surprised.

All of this for a reasonable price of ~$300. I’m going to get a lifetime of these pads before they disappear…Please feel free to ask any question you might have.

The king is dead. Long live the new king!

PS- I've posted this review at the Camaro6 forum as well, since the 1LE is so similar to our cars.

I'm also on Camaro6. Thanks for the review. I'm on stock pads with my '19 ZLE and happy with the HPDE performance up to 8/10's. Just got back from VIR and Watkins.

I'll check out EBC in the Fall.

FWIW I've run SRF for years with multiple cars. I change it every two years on my HPDE cars because I'm lazy. No issues.

 

[jodakid69]

Last night I participated in a Cadillac V-Club Tech talk with brembo. They provided a lot of interesting information IMO. With regard to brake pads, the presented mentioned the following design factors that they need to balance:
(1) stopping power performance, (2) rotor wear, (3) dust (coming from rotor wear), (4) wear life for the pads, (5) operating temperature, (6) noise (squeal), and (7) cost.

Their goal is to have a brake system that balances these items for a "track-capable" vehicle. He also mentioned "how easy" it is to change the brake pads at the track due to the design of the calipers, the pads come off from the top.

There were questions about pad and rotor life. The bottom line is that it depends on use. He mentioned that have a few hard track days you might need new pads, depending on the specific track - what are the top speeds, the number of turns where you need to bleed off speed, etc. It seems that the front pad life is likely about half of the rear brakes.

I am definitely liking the EBC brake pad performance for street use, at least in dry conditions. However, after thinking and analyzing all this information, I am actually surprised at how well the stock pads perform at the track. Also, I see that the EBC tracks at probably not the right pads for long-term street use.

Therefore, I have decided that I am going to try to change the pads to the EBC Track pads the day before going to the track, and then change back to stock pads after I get home. If I can actually do this work myself, then it would maximize the on-track braking performance with better stopping power on the track, while not having issues with deposits on rotors when using the metallic sintered brake pads on the track. I would also have better rotor life, less brake dust, and no brake squeal when I switch back to stock pads after a track day.

 

[Head Hunter]

I believe the comment from Ben was "while it depends on the individual, that their TARGET at Brembro was to get 6 full tanks of gas worth of track usage out of the pads and that he believes they FAR EXCEEDED that." - This was in reference to the standard Iron Rotor/Pad combo, not the CCB.

Regarding the rotors he mentioned that when they released the Blackwing, they spent 4 days at VIR (high speed track with heavy wear on brakes) doing a media tour where they tracked the cars all day with different media personnel showing off the car. He said after that they shipped the cars to Spring Mountain and spent 4 days there doing a showcase for all the dealership personnel, again tracking them all day, every day. None of the rotors on the vehicles had to be changed despite that level of abuse, so should give people some level of comfort that the rotors are likely good for the entire time they'll likely own the car. Believe he said 70-80k miles on the cast iron rotors is expected life under normal use.

 

[PL69]

Last night I participated in a Cadillac V-Club Tech talk with brembo. They provided a lot of interesting information IMO. With regard to brake pads, the presented mentioned the following design factors that they need to balance:
(1) stopping power performance, (2) rotor wear, (3) dust (coming from rotor wear), (4) wear life for the pads, (5) operating temperature, (6) noise (squeal), and (7) cost.

Their goal is to have a brake system that balances these items for a "track-capable" vehicle. He also mentioned "how easy" it is to change the brake pads at the track due to the design of the calipers, the pads come off from the top.

There were questions about pad and rotor life. The bottom line is that it depends on use. He mentioned that have a few hard track days you might need new pads, depending on the specific track - what are the top speeds, the number of turns where you need to bleed off speed, etc. It seems that the front pad life is likely about half of the rear brakes.

I am definitely liking the EBC brake pad performance for street use, at least in dry conditions. However, after thinking and analyzing all this information, I am actually surprised at how well the stock pads perform at the track. Also, I see that the EBC tracks at probably not the right pads for long-term street use.

Therefore, I have decided that I am going to try to change the pads to the EBC Track pads the day before going to the track, and then change back to stock pads after I get home. If I can actually do this work myself, then it would maximize the on-track braking performance with better stopping power on the track, while not having issues with deposits on rotors when using the metallic sintered brake pads on the track. I would also have better rotor life, less brake dust, and no brake squeal when I switch back to stock pads after a track day.

How is the street squealing of the SR11 ?

 

[jodakid69]

To

How is the street squealing of the SR11 ?

So far, some squeal but not much. I did not have any noise on the stock pads. But I work from home and the EBC pads do not have much street use yet. Street stopping power in dry conditions is great, even though the pads are not up to temp - just regular suburban road driving mainly. I have not driven in the rain yet with the EBC pads.

 

[PL69]

To

So far, some squeal but not much. I did not have any noise on the stock pads. But I work from home and the EBC pads do not have much street use yet. Street stopping power in dry conditions is great, even though the pads are not up to temp - just regular suburban road driving mainly. I have not driven in the rain yet with the EBC pads.

Thanks for the feedback, I have a set on order, I am on track as I write and am amazingly impressed by the OEM brake setup. This car is totally different from my M3 it feels like it was designed to do track driving. I think I will want to put stickier tires so the upgraded sintered pads should be a good match since more grip will put more stress on the OEM pads.

I am very happy to say the least.

 

[Carguyshu]

I believe the comment from Ben was "while it depends on the individual, that their TARGET at Brembro was to get 6 full tanks of gas worth of track usage out of the I believe the comment from Ben was "while it depends on the individual, that their TARGET at Brembro was to get 6 full tanks of gas worth of track usage out of the pads and that he believes they FAR EXCEEDED that." - This was in reference to the standard Iron Rotor/Pad combo, not the CCB.

Regarding the rotors he mentioned that when they released the Blackwing, they spent 4 days at VIR (high speed track with heavy wear on brakes) doing a media tour where they tracked the cars all day with different media personnel showing off the car. He said after that they shipped the cars to Spring Mountain and spent 4 days there doing a showcase for all the dealership personnel, again tracking them all day, every day. None of the rotors on the vehicles had to be changed despite that level of abuse, so should give people some level of comfort that the rotors are likely good for the entire time they'll likely own the car. Believe he said 70-80k miles on the cast iron rotors is expected life under normal use.

I mean I go through a half tank in a 20 minute session, so 12 sessions or 3-4 days

 

[Head Hunter]

I mean I go through a half tank in a 20 minute session, so 12 sessions or 3-4 days

That was their target, but he said they far exceeded it

 

[jodakid69]

After my second track day using the EBC pads for track use, I concur with MBAR that these brake pads will be my "go to" brake pads, at least during track season. I might swap them out for the stock pads from NOV - MAR.

 

[PL69]

After my second track day using the EBC pads for track use, I concur with MBAR that these brake pas will be my "go to" brake pads, at least during track season. I might swap them out for the stock pads from NOV - MAR.

I'd be curious what your rotors look like, mine have some kind of grooves after one track day, all 4 are similar.

 

[Mbar]

I'm attaching a picture from the Corvette forum pad review for SR-11. My rotors looked similar. The EBC pad is creating a new layer on your rotor. However, we should pay attention and realize that deep grooves on rotors after a track day is a different story and can happen due to debris or pad that disintegrates too fast and scratch the rotor (I'm attaching a second picture of my rotors after using stock pads on the track and getting deep grooves).

 

[techdude99]

Interesting thread. How hard are you guys driving?

I run OEM pads and rotors on my ZLE (same setup as BW) and brake hard and late while driving 8/10's. Barely any rotor wear.

The ZLE is not the same weight, so I'm curious.

 

[Mbar]

Interesting thread. How hard are you guys driving?

I run OEM pads and rotors on my ZLE (same setup as BW) and brake hard and late while driving 8/10's. Barely any rotor wear.

The ZLE is not the same weight, so I'm curious.

I depends on so many variables, such as run group, car, track, weather, tiers, braking style.
If you are more advanced driver and reaching the braking zone at 145mph vs 135mph, there’s a huge difference.
For me- stock pads didn’t cut it. For most people , it’s enough.

 

[Tall Steve]

What set up do they run at Spring Mountain, EOM?

 

[Head Hunter]

What set up do they run at Spring Mountain, EOM?

I would think so as the intention is for you to learn the limits of your car and what's the point of doing that if the pads aren't OEM but something better?

 

[PL69]

Interesting thread. How hard are you guys driving?

I run OEM pads and rotors on my ZLE (same setup as BW) and brake hard and late while driving 8/10's. Barely any rotor wear.

The ZLE is not the same weight, so I'm curious.

I brake very aggressively and would often trigger abs with the stock ps4s tires so that would explain my rotor grooving I guess.

At least I'm not getting huge vibration with uneven deposit like I did with BMW drilled rotors.

 

[Tall Steve]

What set up do they run at Spring Mountain, EOM?

My dyslexia kicked in this morning, lol EOM????