I’ve found the secret sauce (track pads)

[strohw]

I finally got around to installing these pads. The fronts went on fine but the rears I ended up putting back in the box. I knew going in that the pad would be short about a 1/4" on the bottom. But the pad material itself sits higher on the SR11 ATS-V pad. It actually sits higher than the rotor once in place and puts a couple MM of pad on and overtop of the raised lip you get on the edge of the rotor. You also really have to force the second pin in because things don't quite line up right.

Do you happen to know the sr11 zl1 rear pad part number?

 

[Mbar]

I finally got around to installing these pads. The fronts went on fine but the rears I ended up putting back in the box. I knew going in that the pad would be short about a 1/4" on the bottom. But the pad material itself sits higher on the SR11 ATS-V pad. It actually sits higher than the rotor once in place and puts a couple MM of pad on and overtop of the raised lip you get on the edge of the rotor. You also really have to force the second pin in because things don't quite line up right.

Do you happen to know the sr11 zl1 rear pad part number?

I did not experience any difficulties installing the rear pads. Yes, as warmed in advance the pads are short a few mm compared to stock. I guess another way to skin this cat is getting Carbotec/Gloc 12 pads for the rear with the ZL1 side

 

[strohw]

I did not experience any difficulties installing the rear pads. Yes, as warmed in advance the pads are short a few mm compared to stock. I guess another way to skin this cat is getting Carbotec/Gloc 12 pads for the rear with the ZL1 side

Here's what mine look like installed.

 

[PL69]

I think I found the right part number for the rear !

DP81140.14SR11​

 

[almazing]

I think I found the right part number for the rear !

DP81140.14SR11​

Who's going to make the noble sacrifice to make sure they fit for the rest for us?

 

[PL69]

Who's going to make the noble sacrifice to make sure they fit for the rest for us?

I don't mind but still waiting for a delivery date for the car (PS: aaah damn it I am ordering a set)

I did not know much about the SR pads but seems like the goldilocks for track day ppl like me. Very happy with this finding, for those who used them how is the noise when street driving ?

Also anyone combined track pads with more aggressive tires like ex: Nakang CR-S how is the car reacting to more grip and how do super 200 compare to the TPC ps4s ?

 

[almazing]

I don't mind but still waiting for a delivery date for the car

I did not know much about the SR pads but seems like the goldilocks for track day ppl like me. Very happy with this finding, for those who used them how is the noise when street driving ?

Also anyone combined track pads with more aggressive tires like ex: Nakang CR-S how is the car reacting to more grip and how do super 200 compare to the TPC ps4s ?

I don't have experience with the SR11 line, but I do have experience with sintered pads on cars with the Carbone Lorraine RC series. They make noise at low speed braking. When they're cold, you can hear the pad and rotor friction at low speeds as well. Just a little, and not very obnoxious. Higher speed braking, they're quiet.

Also, keep in mind that rotor and pad wear in their little graphs are for when the brakes have some heat in them. Operational temps. Not when the brakes are cold. On the street, sintered pads will work very well in all conditions. Dry, wet, rain, snow, so long as you have the right tires. But they're not up to operating temp on the street, so they will chew through rotors. That's really the only downside with sintered pads. Accelerated rotor wear when the brakes are cold.

I don't imagine that the SR series are too different from the Carbone Lorraine pads. They're both sintered metallic and work with just straight pad to rotor friction compared to other pads that need pad deposits on the rotor to work well.

I have experience with race pads and 200TW tires. I used Pagid RSL2s with Hankook RS4S. The combination of the sticky tire and higher operating temps of the brake pads means that I had immense stopping power and modulation. However, the brakes generate so much heat that I had to lower my tire pressures by like 10-15 PSI since I did not have adequate brake cooling at the time. My tire pressures got dangerously high, so I had to pit in and let some air out. The caliper paint was discolored, and bubbled as well. The 4BW has pretty decent cooling from the factory, so I don't imagine that tire pressures would get too high with the heat, nor the caliper paint be discolored. But you never know.

 

[strohw]

I don't mind but still waiting for a delivery date for the car (PS: aaah damn it I am ordering a set)

I did not know much about the SR pads but seems like the goldilocks for track day ppl like me. Very happy with this finding, for those who used them how is the noise when street driving ?

Also anyone combined track pads with more aggressive tires like ex: Nakang CR-S how is the car reacting to more grip and how do super 200 compare to the TPC ps4s ?

I only have around 300mi on mine so far as I've been commuting on my motorcycle but I'd say the noise is not that bad. It depends on what your daily driving habits are but so far the pads only make noise in a window around 5-10mph with light braking. Basically, if you're driving around town and stopping you get none but if you are driving down a 25mph street with multiple stop signs and lightly coming to a stop at each sign...you'll get some noise.

 

[jodakid69]

Just installed these:
Front: DP81853.15SR11
Rear: DP83023.15SR11

after burning through the stock pads in 20 (20 min) track sessions. Check out the attached video.

 

[PL69]

Just installed these:
Front: DP81853.15SR11
Rear: DP83023.15SR11

after burning through the stock pads in 20 (20 min) track sessions. Check out the attached video.

How was the fit of the rear pads ?

 

[jodakid69]

I just checked. You cannot see the pads, just the calipers. So I assume the reports are correct that these pads are smaller than the stocks. However, the Dealer tech did not mention that there was a problem. We will likely need to find another model that fits better. But I am good for now.

 

[PL69]

I ordered the ones I posted about in my last posts so we will eventually know if they are the right pads.

 

[jodakid69]

UPDATE: Performance of EBC Track pads @ NJMP

DP81853.15SR11

EBC SR11 Race Pads 2019 Cadillac ATS-V All Models - Front

DP83023.15SR11

EBC SR11 Race Pads MPN: DP83023.15SR11

UPDATE: First track day using these pads, my report is that I see improvement with stopping power once you are up to temperature at the Track. I did an unscientific test by reviewing PDR recordings on the same track with the stock pads and then with the EBC pads. I max speed to the NJMP start-finish tower is 133MPH at which point I go on full brakes. The EBC pads seem to perform about the same from 135 down to 110MPH - Marker 3, but then improve between 110 and 95 @ Marker 2. That was my impression at the track that the stopping grip increased with the new EBC pads. With the stock pads, stopping was either linear or with a slight fade. For now, I will keep braking at the tower and enjoy the better safety margin.

Stock pads @ the 2 Marker

EBC Pads @ the 2 Marker

I forgot to mention that the other change was going from stock brake fluid to Castrol SRF fluid. But I do not think that change affected the braking.

 

[Head Hunter]

UPDATE: Performance of EBC Track pads @ NJMP

DP81853.15SR11

EBC SR11 Race Pads 2019 Cadillac ATS-V All Models - Front

DP83023.15SR11

EBC SR11 Race Pads MPN: DP83023.15SR11

UPDATE: First track day using these pads, my report is that I see improvement with stopping power once you are up to temperature at the Track. I did an unscientific test by reviewing PDR recordings on the same track with the stock pads and then with the EBC pads. I max speed to the NJMP start-finish tower is 133MPH at which point I go on full brakes. The EBC pads seem to perform about the same from 135 down to 110MPH - Marker 3, but then improve between 110 and 95 @ Marker 2. That was my impression at the track that the stopping grip increased with the new EBC pads. With the stock pads, stopping was either linear or with a slight fade. For now, I will keep braking at the tower and enjoy the better safety margin.

Stock pads @ the 2 Marker

EBC Pads @ the 2 Marker

Interesting you’re pulling the same G’s with both pads.

 

[PL69]

Interesting you’re pulling the same G’s with both pads.

I think this just shows that GM put some real good pads on the car from the factory like they do on 1LE, ZL1 etc.

The SR11 pad is after all an endurance pad made to work at high temps for long periods of time so what he's experiencing seems to make sense.

 

[Mbar]

The max G under braking is not just the pad...it's more the max grip of your tiers before ABS is detecting wheel lock. Yes, stock pads are pretty good and give you a good street driving and safe track use for beginners on track / advance drives (at the cost of very short life).
The point of better/dedicated track pads is safe and consistent performance at the track with longer pad life.

 

[travysh]

The max G under braking is not just the pad...it's more the max grip of your tiers before ABS is detecting wheel lock. Yes, stock pads are pretty good and give you a good street driving and safe track use for beginners on track / advance drives (at the cost of very short life).
The point of better/dedicated track pads is safe and consistent performance at the track with longer pad life.

I've been following this thread out of interest even though I've got a 5, but this is something I'm struggling to understand. Improved longevity and heat resistance I totally get.

But I have no problem hitting ABS with the stock pads at speed in the 5 so I'm genuinely curious if/how improving braking performance could come from a different pad.

 

[jodakid69]

July 5th Update:

I have additional information to report and good news, at least for me.

DISCLOSURE:
Before I proceed, in full disclosure I am not a mechanic. I am providing a few limited data points, reporting on my vehicle's performance, and providing my personal analysis regarding the performance of my vehicle's brake system performance. The braking system of your vehicle is a very important safety system and I am NOT providing guidance regarding how you should maintain the braking system of your vehicle. GM which is the OEM of Cadillac CT4V-BW and CT5V-BW vehicles does not recommend the use of "non-GM approved" brake pads or rotors for your vehicle.

BRAKE PERFORMANCE REPORT:
After having the EBC track pads installed in my CT4V-BW and using them for 1 track day - (5) 20-minute sessions, the brake vibration that I was experiencing after my prior last track sessions with the stock pads has gone away. As a recap, after 3 track days using the stock pads, the front braking had developed a pulsation/vibration at the steering wheel during light to moderate braking. The vibration increased after my 4th track day which was only a half day. The vibration remained after I installed two new front tires - both street driving and during my 5th track day session. In total, I had the stock brake pads in use for 5700 miles which included 5 track days.

Upon inquiry, I was informed by two Cadillac dealers, and the Chevy Dealer that did the EBC brake pad install, that I likely needed new rotors. My intent was to replace the rotors after a total of 10 track days.

However, it now seems that the demise of my stock rotors has been inaccurately and prematurely predicted!

I am now back to experiencing normal braking performance under light, moderate, and heavy brake pressure. My assessment is that since the EBC uses full-on metallic sintered brake pads that work off of straight pad surface-to-rotor friction rather than pad-to-rotor film, use of the EBC brake pads in multiple high speed brake applications cleared off the surface film that was causing the vibration. Reference information provided in posting #7 of this thread by ALMAZING regarding metallic sintered brake pads.

I am speculating that repeated hard braking which engages the anti-lock at 135-140MPH down to 80MPH using stock CT4V-BW pads, causes uneven surface deposits to form which in turn causes the brake vibration that is felt at the steering wheel. With the switch to the metallic sintered brake pads, the surface deposits quickly were worn away and the vibration problem went away. I cannot comment on steel or carbon rotor performance for CT5V-BW.

It is interesting that the Brake tech noted that there were minimal rotor surface problems when he installed the EBC track brake pads, but the braking vibration continued to occur after installing the EBC track brake pads. Note that simply installing new brake pads did not "fix" the brake vibration. Therefore, their assessment was that the vibration was caused by warped rotors. The metallic sintered brake pads need to be used in multiple high speed braking sessions to wear off the old brake pad coating. My analysis is that if you installed the stock pad or other pads that are not metallic sintered pads to "fix" the vibration problem, the new pads would not correct the problem. In fact, the brake vibration problem would persist and the dealer's solution to the brake vibration issue would be to install new rotors.

I like the solution that I stumbled upon better!

In summary, my analysis is that CT4V-BW vehicles that have stock brake pads installed and experience repeated heavy braking from 120+ MPH will likely develop uneven brake pad deposits on rotors that will cause braking vibrations. The solution to this issue is to continue to use stock pads and replace rotors or use metallic sintered brake pads. It is also possible that there are other methods to clean off uneven brake pad deposits other than using metallic sintered brake pads.

A final note is that you will be trading rotor life when using metallic sintered brake pads for street driving. So you will need to determine the amount of track use versus street use for your vehicle when selecting brake pads.

 

[Mbar]

I tend to agree with post #38 above. One of the ways to fix brake judder created by hard use during a track day is to install harder compound pads and run them hard. you are basically resurfacing your rotors. This solution works many times...as long as you maintain the minimum thickness of the rotors and there are no substantial cracks that get close to the edge of the rotor.

Overheated stock pads can create 'hot spots' on your rotors. Too much ABS knocking on the rotors can create the same problem as well and in addition pad tapper. Ask me how I know....

 

[Mbar]

I've been following this thread out of interest even though I've got a 5, but this is something I'm struggling to understand. Improved longevity and heat resistance I totally get.

But I have no problem hitting ABS with the stock pads at speed in the 5 so I'm genuinely curious if/how improving braking performance could come from a different pad.

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I'll try to explain anyway...most cars can hit the ABS even if they have a crappy brake pad. It's all a question of how much brake effort you are putting in, your tires and the road surface. This is why you can hit the ABS with less brake effort on a wet road.

Using a track pad (with good modulation) will allow you to reach the max braking force with less effort. More important - the track pad is less likely to overheat and lead to brake fade which can be dangerous if not handled carfully.