How much fun on the street vs Porsche, Alfa...?

[billy]

Hello folks,

New member-at least pending Blackwing purchase arrival and satisfaction- looking for input. Apologize in advance for all the car history-my addiction is, I think, relevant to the eventual question being posed.
One of my few hobbies is losing money on cars by suffering ADD and changing them out every 1-2 years. I am not a track guy though I have done Porsche driving schools and at 62 have learned my criteria is how much fun can I have on the street with the best combination of handling, chassis, ride, then speed. I have always been a 3 series sports sedan guy starting with E36, have owned two E63 AMG, until 2010 when I started buying Porsches and have owned at least 12 since then including several 997.2's, 991.2 GT3, Taycan 4s, Macan GTS, Cayman GTS 4.0, Cayenne...

The Cayman GTS 4.0 (manual) and Macan (daily) I enjoy. In 2019 I had both a new 992 and an Alfa Quadrifoglio. Despite its turbo lag and unreliability the Alfa was more fun on the street than the 992s. No comparison on build quality of course or ultimate performance but the Porsche's limits were so high it wasn't as much fun on the street until much higher speeds.

So this brings me to the 5BW and a question for those with the auto BW, is it as much fun on the street as you expected and to what would you compare it? My favorite cars I've enjoyed on the street were E36-E46 M3's, 997.2, Alfa, Cayman, Since I will not see or test drive the 5BW until it arrives at dealer in another state and paying a premium, I seek views on whether it will achieve my goal- which is as much fun on the street at legal and non legal speeds.

 

[therustytrombone]

My favorite cars I've enjoyed on the street were E36-E46 M3's

You should be looking at the 4BW tbh

 

[DecadenceFTW]

Hello folks,

New member-at least pending Blackwing purchase arrival and satisfaction- looking for input. Apologize in advance for all the car history-my addiction is, I think, relevant to the eventual question being posed.
One of my few hobbies is losing money on cars by suffering ADD and changing them out every 1-2 years. I am not a track guy though I have done Porsche driving schools and at 62 have learned my criteria is how much fun can I have on the street with the best combination of handling, chassis, ride, then speed. I have always been a 3 series sports sedan guy starting with E36, have owned two E63 AMG, until 2010 when I started buying Porsches and have owned at least 12 since then including several 997.2's, 991.2 GT3, Taycan 4s, Macan GTS, Cayman GTS 4.0, Cayenne...

The Cayman GTS 4.0 (manual) and Macan (daily) I enjoy. In 2019 I had both a new 992 and an Alfa Quadrifoglio. Despite its turbo lag and unreliability the Alfa was more fun on the street than the 992s. No comparison on build quality of course or ultimate performance but the Porsche's limits were so high it wasn't as much fun on the street until much higher speeds.

So this brings me to the 5BW and a question for those with the auto BW, is it as much fun on the street as you expected and to what would you compare it? My favorite cars I've enjoyed on the street were E36-E46 M3's, 997.2, Alfa, Cayman, Since I will not see or test drive the 5BW until it arrives at dealer in another state and paying a premium, I seek views on whether it will achieve my goal- which is as much fun on the street at legal and non legal speeds.

Kind of agree with previous response. If you like the 3 series cars, and stuff like the Quadrifoglio...seems like the 4BW is your best option. The driving characteristics will be a lot more closely aligned than with a 5BW. The 5BW is an M5...for all intents and purposes. It's a larger car than almost everything on your list that you said you really enjoyed.

 

[AlBinRVA]

You ask a very legitimate question. how much is too much to enjoy in the real world. one that I find myself unable to truthfully answer. tbh, a civic type r, golf r/gti, wrx sti, m3, etc. make great examples of manual cars that won't overpower the streets but still be fun. the ct4 bw as mentioned above would also fit the category. These are all smaller cars from the 5 BW and don't have the V8 roar, hp/tq or inside comfort but still very streetable. I find myself looking at alternatives because I don't have a lot of faith that the 5BW I have on order will come through. For me it has to be a manual. I currently drive a NA V8 Lexus RCF. Great car in many respects, but I miss having a manual.

 

[jwolf99]

Similar to the other responses, I think 4BW offers you something that is more comparable to the M3s you like so much and for which you can really tap into a lot of its potential on the street. I have the 5BW and there's is really no possible way to exploit the limits of the car on the street. I knew that going into my purchase but I wanted the additional room of the 5 and I am unashamedly a V8 guy.

I have the automatic and it's by far the best auto I've ever had in a car. As you work your way up in the performance settings of the car, the behavior of the tranny is as you'd expect from a car of this caliber with the shifts and revs are notably more aggressive. Then once in V-mode, the ECU is pretty much reading your mind as to what gear you want to be in. Honestly, I hardly ever change gears manually with the paddles or shifter whereas all the prior autos I have owned, I have found that some degree of shifting was required to suit my taste, especially through twisties.

 

[Barstoolman1127]

4BW……way more fun for daily driving on the street.

The other great advantage is that they are available!

 

[SOP]

Similar to the other responses, I think 4BW offers you something that is more comparable to the M3s you like so much and for which you can really tap into a lot of its potential on the street. I have the 5BW and there's is really no possible way to exploit the limits of the car on the street. I knew that going into my purchase but I wanted the additional room of the 5 and I am unashamedly a V8 guy.

I have the automatic and it's by far the best auto I've ever had in a car. As you work your way up in the performance settings of the car, the behavior of the tranny is as you'd expect from a car of this caliber with the shifts and revs are notably more aggressive. Then once in V-mode, the ECU is pretty much reading your mind as to what gear you want to be in. Honestly, I hardly ever change gears manually with the paddles or shifter whereas all the prior autos I have owned, I have found that some degree of shifting was required to suit my taste, especially through twisties.

I'm really glad GM and Ford collaborated on this 10sp. It's a home run for both companies, and seems like one of the best autos in the industry.

 

[strohw]

I'm really glad GM and Ford collaborated on this 10sp. It's a home run for both companies, and seems like one of the best autos in the industry.

I wish I could try this transmission out so I could so how it compares to the zf8 in the M models and Quadrifoglio.

 

[Akamai58]

I have the BW4 for my daily driver and it is a lot of fun to drive but when I want to get really serious, I want my BW5. I love the V8 roar and when you punch it, you're gone. But getting 9 miles to the gallon on my 5 makes it not so much a daily driver so, it's sitting with its cover on until the weekends.

 

[SOP]

I have the BW4 for my daily driver and it is a lot of fun to drive but when I want to get really serious, I want my BW5. I love the V8 roar and when you punch it, you're gone. But getting 9 miles to the gallon on my 5 makes it not so much a daily driver so, it's sitting with its cover on until the weekends.

Good news is gas is finally under $5 at Costco

 

[SOP]

I wish I could try this transmission out so I could so how it compares to the zf8 in the M models and Quadrifoglio.

That'll be a great comparison, as I believe the ZF8 is still the gold standard of autos

 

[Akamai58]

Good news is gas is finally under $5 at Costco

Damn, I just paid 6.49 a gallon this morning.

 

[rdollie]

That'll be a great comparison, as I believe the ZF8 is still the gold standard of autos

Didn't the V3 have the ZF8? I always found it good but I know some had issues with a clunk in the RPM range. Also have the ZF8 on a twin-turbo V8 BMW and it's good. The BW A10 is simply better in all respects though - no question it's better than the ZF8 in my experience.

 

[rdollie]

Hello folks,

New member-at least pending Blackwing purchase arrival and satisfaction- looking for input. Apologize in advance for all the car history-my addiction is, I think, relevant to the eventual question being posed.
One of my few hobbies is losing money on cars by suffering ADD and changing them out every 1-2 years. I am not a track guy though I have done Porsche driving schools and at 62 have learned my criteria is how much fun can I have on the street with the best combination of handling, chassis, ride, then speed. I have always been a 3 series sports sedan guy starting with E36, have owned two E63 AMG, until 2010 when I started buying Porsches and have owned at least 12 since then including several 997.2's, 991.2 GT3, Taycan 4s, Macan GTS, Cayman GTS 4.0, Cayenne...

The Cayman GTS 4.0 (manual) and Macan (daily) I enjoy. In 2019 I had both a new 992 and an Alfa Quadrifoglio. Despite its turbo lag and unreliability the Alfa was more fun on the street than the 992s. No comparison on build quality of course or ultimate performance but the Porsche's limits were so high it wasn't as much fun on the street until much higher speeds.

So this brings me to the 5BW and a question for those with the auto BW, is it as much fun on the street as you expected and to what would you compare it? My favorite cars I've enjoyed on the street were E36-E46 M3's, 997.2, Alfa, Cayman, Since I will not see or test drive the 5BW until it arrives at dealer in another state and paying a premium, I seek views on whether it will achieve my goal- which is as much fun on the street at legal and non legal speeds.

So long as your definition of street fun doesn't include winning the straight-line stop-light rally I think you'll do OK in the 5BW (else you're going to lose to EVs.) It's true it's limits are high and you're not going to approach them on the street but the acceleration is great, the handling greater, the engine noise sublime, the exhaust note amazing, etc.. I have no regrets and like most I drive my 5BW with a heavy foot. The attendants at the two closest Costco gas stations no me well given a fleet of V8s

 

[strohw]

Didn't the V3 have the ZF8? I always found it good but I know some had issues with a clunk in the RPM range. Also have the ZF8 on a twin-turbo V8 BMW and it's good. The BW A10 is simply better in all respects though - no question it's better than the ZF8 in my experience.

The problem is that you can't just broadly compare vehicles that have it as the tuning of that transmission is what matters. Even BMW that uses it across their line up tunes it differently in their M40i/50i models than they do in their M products. You specially have to compare something like a M3/M5/Etc or the Giulia/Stelvio. The Alfas have the most aggressive tuning of the zf8 that I've used, even more so than BMW.

 

[billy]

Well I certainly appreciate the feedback. I will find a 4 to sit in as I was uncertain re the interior size. I am not looking forward to 9 mpg-never found that mpg threshold of pain before but that could be it. Sounds like those with the 5 are having fun which is what I wanted to know. I never race at lights but my wife says I never slow down for curves.

 

[rdollie]

Well I certainly appreciate the feedback. I will find a 4 to sit in as I was uncertain re the interior size. I am not looking forward to 9 mpg-never found that mpg threshold of pain before but that could be it. Sounds like those with the 5 are having fun which is what I wanted to know. I never race at lights but my wife says I never slow down for curves.

I get around 13.x MPG with fun driving in the burbs. Can get mid 20s on the highway for longer stretches. (Also get 4 MPG on the track!)

 

[Tall Steve]

The 4 BW is fun to drive around in town/traffic and has usable power to have fun, but if you are looking for the great sound and crazy power the 5 is where its at...... The 4 has a lot smaller interior but still works for me.......Even after going to Spring Mountain my 5 scares the shit out of me..... I gave a Mustang the sauce the other night and lost the rear end going from 1st to 2nd and I almost shit myself...

 

[rdollie]

The problem is that you can't just broadly compare vehicles that have it as the tuning of that transmission is what matters. Even BMW that uses it across their line up tunes it differently in their M40i/50i models than they do in their M products. You specially have to compare something like a M3/M5/Etc or the Giulia/Stelvio. The Alfas have the most aggressive tuning of the zf8 that I've used, even more so than BMW.

Oh, I'm aware of that! Significant difference in the A10 between Ford and GM and even across different models. I also have a DCT M3 that while is improved over the old SMG, shows opportunity for better tuning!

 

[jumpmanjay]

Size of the 4 is a deal breaker. The back seat is even smaller than my ISF, which is already pretty small.