For the sake of resale value I hope this is a mistake

[Jack Tors]

If you don't care about the luxury component and are cross-shopping against Corvette (that is now mid-engine) and Camaro (that you can no longer buy new), then why would you even be looking at Cadillac (or any of its competitors)? They are completely different cars.

P.S. Especially when the real track-focused Camaro (ZL1) MSRP was round $70K.

Don't we have one last year of the Camaro (2024)?

 

[LF4472]

Don't we have one last year of the Camaro (2024)?

You're right. I didn't check the Performance tab on the Chevrolet website, only the Cars tab.

 

[rubberduck]

That makes zero sense.

So if I decide to get a mild super car tomorrow(think r8, amg gt nsx etc) with performance and features comparable to a Camaro ZL1 I should go around telling people that the r8s and nsx should be 60k and not the price they actually are at?

All I am saying is the blackwing(s) are still priced lower than competition (Audi, bmw , Lexus etc) and even owners and lovers of these cars keep spreading vitriol about the pricing of this car.

It’s NOT a 50k car. 50K gets you a damn golf r and a civic type R.

2023 is the last year for the R8. It's probably already too late to get a new one.

 

[raptor5244]

That makes zero sense.

So if I decide to get a mild super car tomorrow(think r8, amg gt nsx etc) with performance and features comparable to a Camaro ZL1 I should go around telling people that the r8s and nsx should be 60k and not the price they actually are at?

It makes sense to me since I tend to be a "performance bang for the buck" type of buyer. In the supercar example you used I would much rather have a C8 Stingray for $70k than those higher priced cars simply because I know I am getting 90% of the experience at a much lower cost.

I actually traded a 2021 ZL1 for the 4BW. From a performance perspective the ZL1 is excellent but I just found it hard to enjoy on public roads as it begs you to keep your foot in it.

My point about the Camaro is that after owning all these cars, in my opinion, the Camaro SS 1LE hits the sweet spot for price/performance if you are just looking for a fun car with a V8 and like to row your own gears. IMO, the 4BW is a simply a more practical 4 door Camaro. If they had a Chevy SS available with a V8 and Tremec I would have probably bought it over a 4BW.

 

[Kevin0311]

LS3 with tremec TR6060 was in the chevy ss i should know i own one.

 

[savethemanual]

The Camaro apart from being a platform mate doesn’t really need to be in this discussion. It’s at best a 2 seater and a thoroughly impractical daily. I know, I had 2 of them.

If they had a Chevy SS available with a V8 and Tremec I would have probably bought it over a 4BW.

But it doesn’t exist. Also not many people bought that either when it existed. Even with 20% off.

A 4bw is the cheapest (by far) rwd manual 4+ door option available new. The next option is a m3 for nearly 15k more.

 

[raptor5244]

If you don't care about the luxury component and are cross-shopping against Corvette (that is now mid-engine) and Camaro (that you can no longer buy new), then why would you even be looking at Cadillac (or any of its competitors)? They are completely different cars.

P.S. Especially when the real track-focused Camaro (ZL1) MSRP was round $70K.

I actually bought a 2021 ZL1 and drove it for about a year. I thought it was great but struggled to enjoy it on the public roads I drive on so I was considering going back to an Camaro SS 1LE until the 4BW caught my eye. I was a bit hesitant about the LF4 since I prefer a V8 exhaust note but once I saw you could get it with a Tremec manual I was willing to give it a shot. It has all the performance goodies from the Camaro SS 1LE in a more practical package. I really like the car and plan to keep it for a while.

As for pricing, I paid $61k for mine, which was MSRP. If the market wasn't all jacked up like and we had typical discounts like Supplier, etc. the car would have been around $55k, which what I think it is worth, at least my particular build.

 

[raptor5244]

The Camaro apart from being a platform mate doesn’t really need to be in this discussion. It’s at best a 2 seater and a thoroughly impractical daily. I know, I had 2 of them.


But it doesn’t exist. Also not many people bought that either when it existed. Even with 20% off.

A 4bw is the cheapest (by far) rwd manual 4+ door option available new. The next option is a m3 for nearly 15k more.

Yeah, I am little different when it comes to comparing my "fun" cars. I have cross shopped a Miata against a Corvette based on what is more fun to drive. For $30k I found the Miata more fun to drive around town than my C7 Grand Sport. What I like most about the 4BW is that it ticks the most boxes for me right now. Practical, comfortable, manual transmission and decent styling.

 

[PL69]

The Camaro apart from being a platform mate doesn’t really need to be in this discussion. It’s at best a 2 seater and a thoroughly impractical daily. I know, I had 2 of them.


But it doesn’t exist. Also not many people bought that either when it existed. Even with 20% off.

A 4bw is the cheapest (by far) rwd manual 4+ door option available new. The next option is a m3 for nearly 15k more.

And compared to the 4BW the Manual M3 is boring to drive, on top of being less competent on track.

For anyone looking for a fun practical ride and even more so if you want to do track days, nothing beats the 4BW right now, it's really the best for this use case by a long shot. I hope they continue to produce them for many years.

 

[raptor5244]

And compared to the 4BW the M3 is boring to drive, on top of being less competent on track.

For anyone looking for a fun practical ride and even more so if you want to do track days, nothing beats the 4BW right now, it's really the best for this use case by a long shot. I hope they continue to produce them for many years.

Agreed. I am curious if it is only the 4BW that is not selling or if the whole segment is dead at the moment. High prices and high interest rates so something has to give.

 

[PL69]

Agreed. I am curious if it is only the 4BW that is not selling or if the whole segment is dead at the moment. High prices and high interest rates so something has to give.

Ppl who have the cash and want to be faster (straight line), have more instagram likes and use the car in bad weather will buy an AWD M3 or RS5 etc.

It just doesn't leave much market share for what the 4BW is. It would of been the best car in the world when the F series M3 lunched in 2014.

 

[raptor5244]

Ppl who have the cash and want to be faster (straight line), have more instagram likes and use the car in bad weather will buy an AWD M3 or RS5 etc.

It just doesn't leave much market share for what the 4BW is. It would of been the best car in the world when the F series M3 lunched in 2014.

Yeah, I don't think the Cadillac brand resonates as well with the BWM/Audi crowd. Cadillac still feels like it caters to the older demographic. I am pretty sure I was the youngest person in the Cadillac dealership when I bought mine and I am 50.

 

[PL69]

Yeah, I don't think the Cadillac brand resonates as well with the BWM/Audi crowd. Cadillac still feels like it caters to the older demographic. I am pretty sure I was the youngest person in the Cadillac dealership when I bought mine and I am 50.

Dealers I talk to for Blackwing allocations look at me like I'm some sort of Alien, when I start talking about track capibility, 2-piece rotors, bespoke compound tires and camber adjustment I see all the ?? In there faces

The local dealer owner told me the other day to not worry if they get more allocation since they have basically 0 Blackwing buyers besides me lol

 

[Tall Steve]

My 4BW is hard loaded and probably cost more than a lot of you guys would pay but I don't care because its fun to drive and does everything I want it to do as a daily... Mine has all the CF and that makes me smile regardless of the cost.. It's only money guys and you can't take it with you when you die!

When I was at SM in the 4BW I could not drive it to it's limits so it's all the car I will ever need to drive to work..... Lets not forget the 4BW is just so much fun to drive!

 

[RobC7]

Agreed. I am curious if it is only the 4BW that is not selling or if the whole segment is dead at the moment. High prices and high interest rates so something has to give.

Let's be honest here, a very small American luxury car with a V6TT is not what the market wants. This has been done before and it was called the ATS-V. Huge discounts and terrible resale were the norm until some of the COVID craziness changed the market a bit.

The CT4BW was a below MSRP car out of the gate but supply chain issues gave people some hope their car is very special and will be worth a premium.

Would it be a better offering with a LT1 / LT2? I think so as it would be enough to set it apart from it's German counterparts and make it a very special offering.

Sorry if I upset anyone but that's how I see it. This car was never destined to be a sales success.

 

[Tall Steve]

 

[Tall Steve]

 

[Tall Steve]

 

[RobC7]

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

Yes, the BlackWing for all intents and purposes is a refreshed ATS-V. But what can affect values is the BW is seen as a send off, a last hurrah of an ICE car, especially one with a manual. We've seen how the last of something can hold value better than others...example the last air cooled 911, the 993.

Let's be honest here, a very small American luxury car with a V6TT is not what the market wants. This has been done before and it was called the ATS-V. Huge discounts and terrible resale were the norm until some of the COVID craziness changed the market a bit.

The CT4BW was a below MSRP car out of the gate but supply chain issues gave people some hope their car is very special and will be worth a premium.

Would it be a better offering with a LT1 / LT2? I think so as it would be enough to set it apart from it's German counterparts and make it a very special offering.

Sorry if I upset anyone but that's how I see it. This car was never destined to be a sales success.