For the sake of resale value I hope this is a mistake

[Head Hunter]

Found one that’s $10k off

 

[Seth]

Found one that’s $10k off
View attachment 20500View attachment 20501

Holy crap at that MSRP though.

 

[RDATLTE]

Holy crap at that MSRP though.

Every box checked.

 

[FI Fiend]

On one side the larger discounts and slower selling inventory people are noticing may be concerning, but some other perspectives -

1) It seems somewhat of a consistency across the industry now, even for some of the more mainstream, 2020 'all the rage' type vehicles. Major discounts on the Mach E, Teslas..Even the lightening has incentives, not typical for f150s. Overall correction most saw coming

2) There still isn't really a ton of them out there. Maybe compared to a M car with a wait-list and primarily special order approach it seems like a big gap, but at least nationwide there are ~ 2x V8 manual mustangs, even 2x corvettes, and 2x civic type rs (vs manual 4BWs) listed for sale. So in terms of future availability for performance enthusiasts it seems there would still be a relatively low number available. I think others have mentioned this for other performance cars that didn't sell well at first (SS etc).

3) When I priced a lease the expected resale was 50% 3 yrs, 12k miles. Idk what others are expecting but even on these higher priced ones (The ones in 100 miles of me are all $70k or more) I think it'd be better than that a few years from now. So for me at least it's in line or better than expectations

 

[savethemanual]

+1 to what said above.

Also even with all the discounts I still have not seen a spec which I want without all the fluff discounted.

Most of the heavily discounted cars are either auto or manuals with lots of useless options.

 

[raptor5244]

+1 to what said above.

Also even with all the discounts I still have not seen a spec which I want without all the fluff discounted.

Most of the heavily discounted cars are either auto or manuals with lots of useless options.

Same here. The issue is that even at a 10% discount these loaded up 4BWs are still too expensive. $88k car for $78k sounds great and all but it is just a lot of fluffy options that only matter to specific buyers. I love this car but I still feel it is a $55k-$60k vehicle. If you load one up it should be $70k max.

 

[Matt27]

Same here. The issue is that even at a 10% discount these loaded up 4BWs are still too expensive. $88k car for $78k sounds great and all but it is just a lot of fluffy options that only matter to specific buyers. I love this car but I still feel it is a $55k-$60k vehicle. If you load one up it should be $70k max.

It's funny to me, mine was 74k, 6MT (I have Carbon 1 and 2, which I didn't actually want), missing PDR, HUD and sunroof (all of which I actually wanted).

It's a really weird combo, but the more I drive it, the less I care about the missing electronics.

I accidentally grabbed a great spec to keep long term; maximum simplicity.

Not sweating any depreciation though. If I want to upgrade at some point, I'll upgrade.

It's a car, not an asset. I daily drive it and it's currently filthy. I'm running track days with it and will continue to drive the shit out of it. I can figure out the rest later. Not going to cry about paper losses.

 

[PrimeTime]

Dealers are beginning to list 4BW with employee discount and cash incentive.

New 2023 CADILLAC CT4-V For Sale at Suburban Cadillac of Troy | VIN: 1G6DL5RP0P0410980

New 2023 CADILLAC CT4-V from Suburban Cadillac of Troy in Troy, MI, 48084. Call (248) 282-6059 for more information.

www.suburbancadillacoftroy.com

New 2023 CADILLAC CT4-V For Sale at Young Cadillac of Owosso | VIN: 1G6DL5RP1P0410714

New 2023 CADILLAC CT4-V from Young Cadillac of Owosso in Owosso, MI, 48867. Call (989) 494-5008 for more information.

www.youngcadillacowosso.com

No 5's?

 

[PrimeTime]

Stress test.

 

[vj123]

No 5's?

Looks like its 4BW specific.

 

[savethemanual]

Same here. The issue is that even at a 10% discount these loaded up 4BWs are still too expensive. $88k car for $78k sounds great and all but it is just a lot of fluffy options that only matter to specific buyers. I love this car but I still feel it is a $55k-$60k vehicle. If you load one up it should be $70k max.

I like how you’ve come to 55-60k from 50K.

I still disagree with you though. It’s not a 50ks car. 60-70 is the good price point for these cars. Ie RS3 and M2 money.

 

[V56]

Trade ins and Kelly Blue Book values on a 2022 fully loaded 6mt with carbon 1 and 2 is $53K which is a ridiculous amount of depreciation. I should have known.

 

[FI Fiend]

Trade ins and Kelly Blue Book values on a 2022 fully loaded 6mt with carbon 1 and 2 is $53K which is a ridiculous amount of depreciation. I should have known.

What was the MSRP there? The average depreciation across the industry is 20% year 1, 15% each year thereafter. That's based on fair market value vs trade in as well. So for an $85k car two years later that'd be $58k market value. Dealers aim for ~20% return so on a $53k trade they'll like sell low to mid 60s. All sounds about right, but if you got the car late in the model year or the mileage is extra low it probably does feel extreme

 

[LF4472]

Trade ins and Kelly Blue Book values on a 2022 fully loaded 6mt with carbon 1 and 2 is $53K which is a ridiculous amount of depreciation. I should have known.

I would not put much weight in KBB for this car. Some of the options are incorrect for the car and I suspect there isn't much transaction data for them to use. It wouldn't give a value for my car.

 

[MookdocOE]

It's funny to me, mine was 74k, 6MT (I have Carbon 1 and 2, which I didn't actually want), missing PDR, HUD and sunroof (all of which I actually wanted).

It's a really weird combo, but the more I drive it, the less I care about the missing electronics.

I accidentally grabbed a great spec to keep long term; maximum simplicity.

Not sweating any depreciation though. If I want to upgrade at some point, I'll upgrade.

It's a car, not an asset. I daily drive it and it's currently filthy. I'm running track days with it and will continue to drive the shit out of it. I can figure out the rest later. Not going to cry about paper losses.

Yup! You have the right attitude. I remember a boss of mine telling me he kept a C2 all numbers matching highly sought after AZ car trailered it to auction Barrett-Jackson made a huge pile of cash etc. Guy that bought it looked at him and asked will this drive to Colorado? Boss told me he said "I will never own another car to look at ever again!"

 

[Seth]

Caravans and the like doesn’t even give you the option to select that it has CF so it appears they’re not adding any value for that. Of course, they will add value for it when they resell.

 

[raptor5244]

I like how you’ve come to 55-60k from 50K.

I still disagree with you though. It’s not a 50ks car. 60-70 is the good price point for these cars. Ie RS3 and M2 money.

I was comparing it to the value you get from $50k Camaro SS 1LE. I said the 4BW was worth about $10k more to me for the practicality, improved visibility and extra warranty.

I think it depends what you are coming from. If you are a luxury brand buyer and compare this vehicle to BMW, Audi, Mercedes then it looks like good value and definitely delivers on the driving experience. However, if you really don't care much about the luxury brand aspect and compare it to a Camaro or even a C7 Corvette, it seems overpriced. For example, my Camaro 2SS 1LE includes V8, Tremec manual with rev match, Recaro seats, HUD, E-diff, Dual Mode exhaust, 6 piston Brembos, rear spoiler, splitter, hood wrap, rearview camera mirror, etc. was under $50k. My 2019 C7 Grand Sport 1LT with M6 was around $65k MSRP. So, for a buyer like me, $80k+ for a small sports sedan with a V6 just seems high but I am still getting used to having to pay the "luxury tax".

 

[raptor5244]

It's funny to me, mine was 74k, 6MT (I have Carbon 1 and 2, which I didn't actually want), missing PDR, HUD and sunroof (all of which I actually wanted).

It's a really weird combo, but the more I drive it, the less I care about the missing electronics.

I accidentally grabbed a great spec to keep long term; maximum simplicity.

Not sweating any depreciation though. If I want to upgrade at some point, I'll upgrade.

It's a car, not an asset. I daily drive it and it's currently filthy. I'm running track days with it and will continue to drive the shit out of it. I can figure out the rest later. Not going to cry about paper losses.

I like that spec. The price of the CF is expensive but without any real aftermarket options you will pay a pretty penny to add those options.

 

[savethemanual]

I think it depends what you are coming from.

That makes zero sense.

So if I decide to get a mild super car tomorrow(think r8, amg gt nsx etc) with performance and features comparable to a Camaro ZL1 I should go around telling people that the r8s and nsx should be 60k and not the price they actually are at?

All I am saying is the blackwing(s) are still priced lower than competition (Audi, bmw , Lexus etc) and even owners and lovers of these cars keep spreading vitriol about the pricing of this car.

It’s NOT a 50k car. 50K gets you a damn golf r and a civic type R.

 

[LF4472]

I was comparing it to the value you get from $50k Camaro SS 1LE. I was said the 4BW was worth about $10k more to me for the practicality, improved visibility and extra warranty.

I think it depends what you are coming from. If you are a luxury brand buyer and compare this vehicle to BMW, Audi, Mercedes then it looks like good value and definitely delivers on the driving experience. However, if you really don't care much about the luxury brand aspect and compare it to a Camaro or even a C7 Corvette, it seems overpriced. For example, my Camaro 2SS 1LE includes V8, Tremec manual with rev match, Recaro seats, HUD, E-diff, Dual Mode exhaust, 6 piston Brembos, rear spoiler, splitter, hood wrap, rearview camera mirror, etc. was under $50k. My 2019 C7 Grand Sport 1LT with M6 was around $65k MSRP. So, for a buyer like me, $80k+ for a small sports sedan with a V6 just seems high but I am still getting used to having to pay the "luxury tax".

If you don't care about the luxury component and are cross-shopping against Corvette (that is now mid-engine) and Camaro (that you can no longer buy new), then why would you even be looking at Cadillac (or any of its competitors)? They are completely different cars.

P.S. Especially when the real track-focused Camaro (ZL1) MSRP was round $70K.