EV Thoughts Thread: cause the old farts did their usual thing

[BrakeFade]

There was a study done in Great Britain that concluded that EVs actually produce more pollution to our air than an ICE car. Apparently the production of electricity is not that green. Of course it depends on the source of energy that produces the electricity.

I’ve see all kinds of reports that say EV cost of ownership is near 0 and/or EV cost of ownership is way higher than ICE cars, pollution high, pollution low, blah, blah, blah. You can make data say anything you want with an agenda. In the end, I think it’s good to have alternative modes of transportation. Choice is always good And anything that moves Technology forward is great for society as a whole.

 

[Jim2000]

That has been part of the conversation for several years. If your electric is from coal, your EV isn't very green. Add to that your additional weight destroying our roads faster and your faster wear on tires because of weight, and are you really greener? I wish I had the article, but someone calculated that most EV's don't become greener than gas until around 50,000 miles depending on cost, range, etc.

I saw the same article and analysis. I wish the public were more aware and didn't believe that EVs don't pollute.

 

[rubberduck]

That has been part of the conversation for several years. If your electric is from coal, your EV isn't very green. Add to that your additional weight destroying our roads faster and your faster wear on tires because of weight, and are you really greener? I wish I had the article, but someone calculated that most EV's don't become greener than gas until around 50,000 miles depending on cost, range, etc.

There are many sources. This one is a direct comparison of a Volvo plant that has a similar ICE and EV vehicle.

The full PDF report from Volvo is here:

https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my23/xc40-electric-light/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf

 

[Finally-a-V]

I'm no tree hugger, but, like everything else, it's very controversial. Not to mention how we're destroying the the earth to get the lithium. You do you. If it works for you, carry on

 

[BimmerFan]

I'm no tree hugger, but, like everything else, it's very controversial. Not to mention how we're destroying the the earth to get the lithium. You do you. If it works for you, carry on

That has been part of the conversation for several years. If your electric is from coal, your EV isn't very green. Add to that your additional weight destroying our roads faster and your faster wear on tires because of weight, and are you really greener? I wish I had the article, but someone calculated that most EV's don't become greener than gas until around 50,000 miles depending on cost, range, etc.

Exactly, there a huge cost in the mining of the lithium and other minerals for the batteries, and the future costs of recycling and/or burying these toxic chemicals. Assuming of course, that the car didn't burst into flames and consume itself along with the driver and passengers.

 

[Roadhawk]

There was a study done in Great Britain that concluded that EVs actually produce more pollution to our air than an ICE car. Apparently the production of electricity is not that green. Of course it depends on the source of energy that produces the electricity.

I've been telling folks (who fanatically push EVs) this for years....its at least a consideration. We need cleaner electricity....until then its probably pretty much a wash....particularly considering the issues with Lithium and what others have already mentioned here.

Back in the day it was the smug Prius owners...and OK I get it....as long as your idea of a car is essentially like driving a waterbed on wheels - how I described it after a 1 week rental one time - much of it driving mountain roads in Puerto Rico.

On the good side I was able to talk my way out of a speeding ticket after becoming incredulous that the cop could even suggest I was going as fast as she said I was going. I told her that the car can't even go over 65...and apparently, after much protestation on my part, she agreed....probably helped that I had two young children in the back vociferously agreeing with me (concerning how slow and pathetic the car was).

 

[99sport]

That has been part of the conversation for several years. If your electric is from coal, your EV isn't very green. Add to that your additional weight destroying our roads faster and your faster wear on tires because of weight, and are you really greener? I wish I had the article, but someone calculated that most EV's don't become greener than gas until around 50,000 miles depending on cost, range, etc.

"In Poland and China, for example, an EV would need to be driven 78,700 miles to break-even"

Why EVs Aren't a Climate Change Panacea

“Electric cars will not save the climate. It is completely wrong,” Fatih Birol, Executive Director of the International Energy Agency (IEA), has stated. If Birol were from Maine, he might have simply observed, “You can’t get there from here.”

spectrum.ieee.org

 

[Dmkp621]

The full PDF report from Volvo is here:

https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/project/contentplatform/data/media/my23/xc40-electric-light/volvo-cars-LCA-report-xc40.pdf

This is an excellent article. It appears to bring data and reason to this emotional and politically motivated discussion. In summary, the article demonstrates that the carbon footprint of the ICE is lower than the BEV until a breakeven point of 90,000 miles. At a total lifetime of 124,000 miles assumed in the study, the carbon footprint of the BEV is less than 10% better than the ICE vehicle - so basically the same. This is assuming the current global mix of electricity sources. The study did examine a scenario of 100% wind energy sources which of course has a different result.

It is amazing and very sad that this kind of data driven analysis and fact-based conclusions are absent from the mainstream narrative around EVs.

 

[Tall Steve]

WOW, I don't log on to the forum for a couple of week and look what I missed! I think some electric cars are cool and a birdie told me our favorite brand will be coming out with an electric V but I will not be purchasing one....

 

[Finally-a-V]

WOW, I don't log on to the forum for a couple of week and look what I missed! I think some electric cars are cool and a birdie told me our favorite brand will be coming out with an electric V but I will not be purchasing one....

You miss a day, you miss a lot.

Think I saw an article somewhere about the electric V. Cadillac has some interesting EV's in the pipeline.

 

[Berserker]

Hey, hey hey, my brethren. Reviving this thread.

We got any Lucid owners here? I would be interested in hearing some opinions.

This past weekend, a casual look at the Lucid Air became a test drive. I actually drove two: the Pure RWD (430 hp / 406 torques) and the Touring AWD (620 hp / 885 torques). I came away pretty impressed.

If I did the thing, it would be an "add to fleet" rather than a replacement for the Blackwing. (I'll drive the Blackwing until I am too old and arthritic to work the shifter, at which point I'll just park it in the garage and clean it obsessively and talk all the time about how fast it is. You know, like the Corvette guys do.)

Thoughts? About Lucid specifically, or about EVs in general for people like us who appreciate sporty sedans.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

Hey, hey hey, my brethren. Reviving this thread.

We got any Lucid owners here? I would be interested in hearing some opinions.

This past weekend, a casual look at the Lucid Air became a test drive. I actually drove two: the Pure RWD (430 hp / 406 torques) and the Touring AWD (620 hp / 885 torques). I came away pretty impressed.

If I did the thing, it would be an "add to fleet" rather than a replacement for the Blackwing. (I'll drive the Blackwing until I am too old and arthritic to work the shifter, at which point I'll just park it in the garage and clean it obsessively and talk all the time about how fast it is. You know, like the Corvette guys do.)

Thoughts? About Lucid specifically, or about EVs in general for people like us who appreciate sporty sedans.

By all accounts the Lucid is a fantastic sports sedan, but I will never buy another car without Apple Carplay. We don't have it in my wife's Tesla and it is infuriating.

 

[Berserker]

By all accounts the Lucid is a fantastic sports sedan, but I will never buy another car without Apple Carplay. We don't have it in my wife's Tesla and it is infuriating.

I understand that Lucid has had Carplay for a while. Don't know how good the integration is; by most accounts software is not one of Lucid's strengths.

No Android Auto as yet.

 

[CBH]

I have driven a Tesla S, Tesla 3, Chevy Bolt, and just started driving a Cadillac Lyriq.

I would never, ever buy an EV. All my vehicles are fast & loud - my 5BW, Ducati and Harley all have manual transmissions and straight pipes. I'd never have it any other way.

However, if you are limited to something with a muffler and only 2 pedals, EVs deliver a superior driving experience. They are quick, don't have that ridiculous automatic tranny fumbling for the right gear, and the smooth silent power is extremely elegant.

My buddy who had just gotten the Model S told me "They salesman said 'Get to 50 and floor it'". He did, and the sale was imminent

The Lyriq is wonderful. It really is a perfect city car. Quiet, comfy, and it can dart through holes in traffic instantly. But road trips are not its thing. The cold sucks range at 2 to 3 times the displayed rate. High speed highway travel also takes LOTS of juice.

I laugh when people say how quickly they grew tired of their EV and all its power. I love hearing the roar of the pipes, but I'm honest about speed - its fun no matter how its delivered.

 

[ngoni]

Hey, hey hey, my brethren. Reviving this thread.

We got any Lucid owners here? I would be interested in hearing some opinions.

This past weekend, a casual look at the Lucid Air became a test drive. I actually drove two: the Pure RWD (430 hp / 406 torques) and the Touring AWD (620 hp / 885 torques). I came away pretty impressed.

If I did the thing, it would be an "add to fleet" rather than a replacement for the Blackwing. (I'll drive the Blackwing until I am too old and arthritic to work the shifter, at which point I'll just park it in the garage and clean it obsessively and talk all the time about how fast it is. You know, like the Corvette guys do.)

Thoughts? About Lucid specifically, or about EVs in general for people like us who appreciate sporty sedans.

1. Get really good insurance coverage. If you get into even the most minor of a fender bender there's a good chance your insurance will total the car if there's any damage on or near the battery.

2. Consider how long your ownership will really be. Many EV owners find out that when it comes time to replace the battery it's just cheaper to buy a whole new car.

With all that instant torque, they sure are fun to drive and for many they fit into normal commute or errand patterns, but unless and until battery safety can be improved and battery mass production solved, you probably just want to lease rather than own. My $0.02.

 

[rdollie]

By all accounts, if you're in the market for an EV, Lucid is a top choice. If you're really interested, look at used Air Tourings. 2022s are going for low 60s on AutoTrader.

 

[Berserker]

1. Get really good insurance coverage. If you get into even the most minor of a fender bender there's a good chance your insurance will total the car if there's any damage on or near the battery.

I currently have 250/500/100 with a $1k deductible (and a $1 MM umbrella liability policy) through State Farm. Not the cheapest company out there, but I've been with them 40 years and they pay claims without much hassle.

My agent quoted me $98/month to add the Pure RWD. Not too shabby, when there are horror stories online about annual premiums in the $2k to $3k range.

If I do the thing I might also look at upping my coverage.

2. Consider how long your ownership will really be. Many EV owners find out that when it comes time to replace the battery it's just cheaper to buy a whole new car.

With all that instant torque, they sure are fun to drive and for many they fit into normal commute or errand patterns, but unless and until battery safety can be improved and battery mass production solved, you probably just want to lease rather than own. My $0.02.

This will be my first-ever lease. I'm not sure about Lucid's long-term prospects, so I want to be able to give it back at the end - or buy it for the residual if I like it enough.

If you're really interested, look at used Air Tourings. 2022s are going for low 60s on AutoTrader.

That's literally what started me down this rabbit hole! I looked at pre-owned out of curiosity, and then looked and new and saw the prices had dropped lot, especially with the new Pure RWD trim, and then I saw the deals for the cars in stock.

The finance guy called me this morning about a Air Touring they have that a deal fell through on. The lease would be like $5k down and $640/month - less than the Pure I was looking at. But the Pure had colors I wanted, and the Touring had worse seats and the execretous glass roof.

I think the Pure RWD is more to my taste. I could feel the weight difference when I drove the Pure after the Touring. I thought I might be imagining it because I had it my head the weight difference was only 200 lbs. I looked it up later and it's 700 lbs!

That said, though, I didn't notice the Touring's weight while driving it. I just noticed ALL THE TORQUES. So I am keeping my mind open. They have a Touring in inventory with the interior I want, and different (but still premium) exterior color, that looks really nice to my eyes. It would cost about $50/month more than the Pure. Trying to decide whether a 3.5s 0-60 time is worth that to me. I might need to go test drive them again. For science.

 

[BimmerFan]

This will be my first-ever lease. ... and the Touring had worse seats and the execretous glass roof.

Leasing it is a good idea, and that seems like a pretty darn good subsidy that they have going on.

You win the "made up word of the day!" award. Congratulations. Thank you for the chuckle this morning.

I've borrowed and test driven and evaluated many EV, and initially I find the torque and quiet quite interesting, but I tire of it quickly. I also suffer from range anxiety (or at least, I know I will) and around here, there isn't a great charging infrastructure. I would only consider one if my commute got shorter and I could get a killer deal.

 

[quikag]

Go for it! I have two EV's for daily for wife ('23 Model Y) and weekend family beater ('24 Model S Plaid). They both serve their purpose very well and I enjoy driving them both. It's a different experience and the thrust (especially on the MSP) is intoxicating. It just feels like a spaceship zipping around and the software integration, air suspension, etc. really do give it a premium driving experience.

That said, never getting rid of the 5BW, ZR1, C8, etc. The sound and visceral feel are an entirely different experience.

The Lucid is a great EV with incredible engineering. At the right lease price, go for it! It'll keep miles off your ICE beauties and for zipping around town, they are very hard to beat.

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

I'm not exactly what you'd call an EV enthusiast having only ever test driven the original Tesla Roadster when it came out, and a Lucid Air GT. I tried the Lucid because of Jason Cammisa's reviews, the fact that the CEO is an ex Lotus engineer, and having seen them testing at Thunderhill Raceway.

Verdict: I would absolutely get one if I had to add an EV. The car 'feels' right in terms of feedback and is a hoot to drive through corners and not just accelerating in a straight line (which is also awesome). However, it overlaps too much with my CT5V Blackwing since I use the Blackwing as my daily and already have a separate sports car. If I had unlimited garage space I'd be tempted though. As a lease.