EV Thoughts Thread: cause the old farts did their usual thing

[GTANotch88]

Just a heads up to anyone getting a 50amp outlet installed for EV charging... make sure the receptacle is ev rated and not just a cheap/basic one like for a RV or a welder or such. The typical 50amp plug setups are not designed for continuous high amp use and can burn/melt. EV receptacles are designed and rated for continuous charging use.

In regards to the lucid air, the one piece windshield glass/forward roof section is pretty cool but I would not want that on my personal car.

 

[ngoni]

The cost goes way up to do that. Lucid gives buyers a $650 credit towards "charging accessories", and $650 happens to be exactly what the portable 40-amp charger costs. The charger is "free", and portable - so I just unplug it and take it with me when I move. So my only cost is the outlet installation.

The 80A hard-wired charger would cost me another $550 out of pocket, plus install cost, plus removal cost when I move.

I guess as long as this isn't your primary vehicle and you have some other option for unplanned trips then a slow charger is fine. If anyone would be using that as their primary car, I would think their time would be worth a one-time cost to know it could charge quickly when needed. If only there was some amount of standardization in these chargers...

 

[so 650]

What a beautiful design compared to the Tesla's and other EV's.

You mis-spelled "fugly".

 

[Berserker]

Just a heads up to anyone getting a 50amp outlet installed for EV charging... make sure the receptacle is ev rated and not just a cheap/basic one like for a RV or a welder or such. The typical 50amp plug setups are not designed for continuous high amp use and can burn/melt. EV receptacles are designed and rated for continuous charging use.

That is one of the reasons I want a quote from Lucid's recommended vendor.

In regards to the lucid air, the one piece windshield glass/forward roof section is pretty cool but I would not want that on my personal car.

That window/roof is not available on the Pure, and is now optional on the Touring. And, yeah: Do. Not. Want.

I guess as long as this isn't your primary vehicle and you have some other option for unplanned trips then a slow charger is fine. If anyone would be using that as their primary car, I would think their time would be worth a one-time cost to know it could charge quickly when needed. If only there was some amount of standardization in these chargers...

I don't think anyone would argue with any of that.

That said, really fast charging, like the "200 miles of range in 17 minutes" that Lucid quotes, requires a public L3 charger - and a fairly empty battery (charging rate is not linear).

I understand that the "fast" L2 home charger will do a little under 1/10th of that. And the the "slow" L2 charger does half of the fast L2. That works out to the "slow" L2 charging at about 30 miles of range per hour, which would charge a mostly-depleted battery to full overnight. That's plenty for my needs.

You mis-spelled "fugly".

LOL.

"Functional" is beautiful to my eyes.

Sometimes "functional" gives us an SR-71 ... and sometimes it gives us an A-10.

 

[jbawden]

There is a lot of discussion on the Lucid forum about the 14-50 outlet being appealing because its cheaper, but many report issues. The TL;DR version is this: "Don't use a 14-50 outlet, hardwire your charger instead. If you must use a 14-50 outlet, use one made by Hubbell or Cooper (~$100) rather than Leviton ($10) that you get from Home Depot."

You never know if you will or won't move, life is uncertain. Maybe being hardwired would make your home more compelling to the next buyer? Its the small things that tip buyers in a lot of cases.

 

[Berserker]

There is a lot of discussion on the Lucid forum about the 14-50 outlet being appealing because its cheaper, but many report issues. The TL;DR version is this: "Don't use a 14-50 outlet, hardwire your charger instead. If you must use a 14-50 outlet, use one made by Hubbell or Cooper (~$100) rather than Leviton ($10) that you get from Home Depot."

Yeah, a high quality outlet is needed. And besides that, the installation itself needs to be top notch.

People have had problems from the outlet not being up to the task, being put on the wrong breakers (60A vs 50A), and the wrong gauge wiring being used. Basically, practices that were acceptable for the past 50 years with 14-50 outlets being installed for dryers absolutely will not work for an EV.

All that is why I want to get a quote from an EV specialist.

You never know if you will or won't move, life is uncertain. Maybe being hardwired would make your home more compelling to the next buyer? Its the small things that tip buyers in a lot of cases

If I installed an 80A L2 it would be a Lucid branded charger, which probably has a minimal future audience. I haven't entirely ruled the hard-wired charger out, but am leaning heavily towards 14-50. The simplicity and flexibility is compelling to me. For example, being able to easily swap in a new charger if I have problems.

Only real downside I see is the whole "maybe burn your house down" thing. That's a pretty damn big downside, though. Another reason to consult with an EV specialist electrician.

 

[quikag]

Sounds like it's time to pull the trigger on the Pure! You'll really live EV ownership for the daily runabout tasks. It's just so easy to own. Software updates over the air, charging at night, no oil changes, no maintenance at all really besides tire rotation and windshield washer fluid. It's just an easy, enjoyable experience.

I'm really surprised with how much I like my MSP. It just gets it done with no fuss.

 

[quikag]

Yeah, a high quality outlet is needed. And besides that, the installation itself needs to be top notch.

People have had problems from the outlet not being up to the task, being put on the wrong breakers (60A vs 50A), and the wrong gauge wiring being used. Basically, practices that were acceptable for the past 50 years with 14-50 outlets being installed for dryers absolutely will not work for an EV.

All that is why I want to get a quote from an EV specialist.



If I installed an 80A L2 it would be a Lucid branded charger, which probably has a minimal future audience. I haven't entirely ruled the hard-wired charger out, but am leaning heavily towards 14-50. The simplicity and flexibility is compelling to me. For example, being able to easily swap in a new charger if I have problems.

Only real downside I see is the whole "maybe burn your house down" thing. That's a pretty damn big downside, though. Another reason to consult with an EV specialist electrician.

If you do 40amps on a good quality 14-50 plug professionally installed by an EV experienced electrician, you will be absolutely fine. I've had mine for 2.5 years with zero issues charging several times a week on my cheapo Woshion charger (that still works perfectly).

 

[jbawden]

I hardwired my Tesla L2 Charger myself 4 years ago, and then within 30 minutes had the Lucid L2 charger swapped in its space with the proper crumped on lugs. Hardwired doesn't mean its permanently part of house, there is still a connection at the charger that can be undone in 1 minute.

The issues are in fact the poor quality outlets, not the wiring gauge (which is obviously important). The compelling part for others is not the L2 charger itself (those are going to evolve and be outdated just like the cars will, or you can take it with you when you move) but the fact that the basic infrastructure is there. Not starting an argument, just passing on the wisdom learned by others. Cheers!

 

[bloominguez]

Just a heads up to anyone getting a 50amp outlet installed for EV charging... make sure the receptacle is ev rated and not just a cheap/basic one like for a RV or a welder or such. The typical 50amp plug setups are not designed for continuous high amp use and can burn/melt. EV receptacles are designed and rated for continuous charging use.

In regards to the lucid air, the one piece windshield glass/forward roof section is pretty cool but I would not want that on my personal car.

The good book (National Electric Code) says that you shouldn't load residential circuits continuously at the nominal amperage. The 80% rule is well known. Most loads are not continuous, that's why this is common practice. Naturally, EV charging doesn't fit this profile.

The 80% Rule for EV Charging Circuits | Force4Michigan

force4michigan.com

Understanding 80% Vs. 100% Rated Circuit Breakers - NOARK Electric

This article will clear up misconceptions between 80% and 100% circuit breakers and their applications in panel design.

na.noark-electric.com

"An 80% rated breaker means that the breaker is listed for operation at 80% of its rating and can be used in an 80% branch circuit design. The 80% design as per section 210.20(A) of the NEC provides overcurrent protection by considering the sum of the non-continuous loads and 125% of the continuous loads."

So I'm not sure if people are having a problem with 50 A outlets when they try to carry 50 A--NOT a good thing, the individual would be to blame. Or if they're having problems even at 40 A or less, in which case the manufacturer or installer would be to blame.

If it were me I'd be fine with a 50 A outlet but would be certain to keep the charging current at, or preferably below, 40 A. I'd also be willing to pay for a continuously rated breaker (if available in this tiny size, I don't know--but only do this if other components are 100% rated), continuously rated outlet (if available, I don't know), and oversized conductors (this is obviously do-able). I'd probably grab an IR gun from work to check temps, out of curiosity. And I'd check the current at the panel myself, to see if the car does a good job current limiting, if that's a setting you can pick.

 

[Berserker]

So I'm not sure if people are having a problem with 50 A outlets when they try to carry 50 A--NOT a good thing, the individual would be to blame. Or if they're having problems even at 40 A or less, in which case the manufacturer or installer would be to blame.

If it were me I'd be fine with a 50 A outlet but would be certain to keep the charging current at, or preferably below, 40 A.

Yeah, the standard for these 14-50 outlets is 50A breakers for the 40A continuous load.

In one video I saw online, a woman's professionally-installed 14-50 was a non-EV-rated outlet on a 60A breaker. The wiring was also of a type that was not recommended, but the terminology they used was beyond my understanding (maybe it referred to braided wire vs solid).

There is apparently also a national standard that hasn't been adopted everywhere requiring GFCI-equipped breakers. I did not even know those were a thing.

Qmerit is Lucid's recommended install partner. They are actually a gateway to local electricians they partner with. I did their online application processed and they gave me an estimate of $800 ($200 more than my local electrician).

But their form asked more questions than my local electrician did, and they also check for available rebates based on your electrical provider and stuff. So that was cool.

Next step is the job goes out their partners and we wait for someone to pick it up. When I get an actual person on the phone I will ask for the price for installing the 80A hard-wired charger.

 

[bloominguez]

Yeah, the standard for these 14-50 outlets is 50A breakers for the 40A continuous load.

In one video I saw online, a woman's professionally-installed 14-50 was a non-EV-rated outlet on a 60A breaker. The wiring was also of a type that was not recommended, but the terminology they used was beyond my understanding (maybe it referred to braided wire vs solid).

There is apparently also a national standard that hasn't been adopted everywhere requiring GFCI-equipped breakers. I did not even know those were a thing.

60 A breaker for a 50 A outlet seems .... not ideal. If the current does exceed 40 A, but doesn't reach 48 A (or 60 A if 100% rated breaker), the breaker won't do anything; it will let the outlet cook. Wiring would depend on the ampacity more than the type.

And if you are required to get a GFCI, my reaction is that you should get the 30 mA version, not the 5 mA version, if possible, to avoid nuisance trips.