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EV Thoughts Thread: cause the old farts did their usual thing

This is worth reading or listening to the audio book. It is a good explanation of the big picture.

The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels Amazon.com
This would be a wonderful book for our students to read, but of course our teachers would not allow it since they have a narrative of their own. I remember making a presentation to 5th graders about global warming and the teacher was shocked that I presented both the negative and positive aspects of global warming. Needless to say, I was not invited to speak at their school again.
 
I wonder what the steering feel is like?

Super quick, decently communicative. Steering is actually a high point on the Model Y. I drove my Model Y to test drive the GR Corolla, had them on the same back roads and the Model Y had noticibly better steering feel. GR Corolla steering is actually surprisingly lacking on feedback.

It's harder to pick between the 5BW and the Model Y steering. The Model Y definitely has a faster rack, similar amounts of feedback.
 
You can piss on the charger door too. Again, inability to improvise means they shouldn't be driving. Stay off the road.
Yeah, a woman is gonna drop her drawers and try to piss on her Tesla access door. I would pay money to see that ! Or she could piss in her Stanley or Yeti mug and pour it like a Lady. LOL !
 
As an EV owner, most of the negative news you hear about is blown way out of proportion.

I have owned a Tesla Model 3 for the past 4.5 years and have no complaints. That said, we live in an ideal climate for EVs, home has a garage with a wall charger and it is not our only vehicle. We put around 55,000 miles on it so far and it has never seen a Supercharger. We simply plug it in at night and leave with a full charge. Unless you are going on a road trip I am not sure why you would ever use a Supercharger. If you are driving more than 250 miles per day then you probably don't want an EV. EV range on the highway blows, these things are best in the city stop and go where they can take advantage of regen braking. The reality is most people drive 50 miles or less per day so if your driving mainly consists of commuting to work and getting groceries then an EV is very easy to live with if you own a home with a garage to charge in. If you live an apartment, condo, etc. and have to use public chargers all the time then I would not buy an EV yet.

From a technology and driving perspective I really like my Model 3. The Standard Range model has a single motor over the rear axle, which lightens up the front and gives it a mid-engine balance and feel. It also weighs about 200lbs less than the 4BW. The EV torque curve is ridiculous. My standard Model 3 will give me more shove in the seat than my 4BW and does so with no effort or drama. It drives a lot better than people think. That is besides the point, where it really shines is in the typical traffic filled daily driving. One pedal driving, auto steering, excellent navigation and infotainment system with voice commands, super low maintenance, etc. In 4.5 years I have only put a set of tires and added washer fluid. Costs about $5 to fully charge it at home vs. $40-$50 in gas per tank.

I agree with others here that these EVs should not be forced, but rather let the free market decide the rate of adoption.
Pretty much the Goldilocks scenario and clearly useful. I would consider an EV for local or local+ use like this, but not as an extended trip car.
 
This is worth reading or listening to the audio book. It is a good explanation of the big picture.

The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels Amazon.com
I totally get the point...and to a large extent agree. However the cost of burning these fuels has become pretty clear (and will become even more clear in the decades to come). We need to reign it in and transition to other means of power that are becoming available. It wont happen overnight but it does need to happen quicker than it is.We're lucky that so many technologies are maturing and available now that can actually (potentially) make a difference....even if just a little.Regardless we're going to have to adapt and deal with a warmer (and more chaotic) world and there will be costs (in $ and more than just $)

Of course while I say this I just bought a relatively inefficient ICE vehicle. So guilty as charged. It would probably take too many words to present my full rationalization. So lets leave it at I'm not long for this world (as none of us are) and I just want to do my thing. I actually enjoy driving and enjoy the type of performance I get from MT ICE sporty cars. Most folks really don't care like I do and like many here do. I fully support the idea of others driving EVs....and perhaps we'll even get one down the road (if I live that long)...but not quite yet. Besides I don't drive that much anymore anyway...

I also get how EVs can be fun (and can perform)....SUVs can be fun too and trucks...but their just not for me. We do have (mega) solar panels on the house and I grow alot of our own food and have planted literally hundreds of trees etc etc...so perhaps I'm doing my part...anyway nobody's perfect...
 
This would be a wonderful book for our students to read, but of course our teachers would not allow it since they have a narrative of their own. I remember making a presentation to 5th graders about global warming and the teacher was shocked that I presented both the negative and positive aspects of global warming. Needless to say, I was not invited to speak at their school again.
A rational open minded person in a free society would welcome hearing both the positives and negatives about any technology. But instead any negatives about these new energy sources are largely suppressed. This alone should concern people and make them wonder what’s going on behind the curtain. For example, what’s behind California’s ban on existing and new nuclear reactors? The facts show that the new energy technologies will barely make a dent in their future energy needs for the foreseeable future.

We should be looking at the pros and cons of any technology and making rational decisions based on all factors. I doubt most EV evangelicals know any cons about the technology; the processes and energy required to make batteries, the economic impact and disparities. This is done on purpose and facilitated by our leaders and the industry. They don’t want people to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions. I have zero guilt about owning a (two) low mileage ICE car because I have educated myself. I have nothing against EVs, but the people who think they are better than me and “saving the planet” are living in a fantasy.

The anti fossil fuel contingent that started gaining steam in the 70s has been wrong about every prediction they’ve made. The reason is that long term climate modeling is impossible due to the large number and scale of the variables and interactions and sensitivities between variables. But we should believe them now? Based on what, surely not their track record. There are a large number of scientists that contest these predictions, but of course they are ridiculed and suppressed by the MSM and leaders.
 
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I totally get the point...and to a large extent agree. However the cost of burning these fuels has become pretty clear (and will become even more clear in the decades to come). We need to reign it in and transition to other means of power that are becoming available. It wont happen overnight but it does need to happen quicker than it is.We're lucky that so many technologies are maturing and available now that can actually (potentially) make a difference....even if just a little.Regardless we're going to have to adapt and deal with a warmer (and more chaotic) world and there will be costs (in $ and more than just $)

Of course while I say this I just bought a relatively inefficient ICE vehicle. So guilty as charged. It would probably take too many words to present my full rationalization. So lets leave it at I'm not long for this world (as none of us are) and I just want to do my thing. I actually enjoy driving and enjoy the type of performance I get from MT ICE sporty cars. Most folks really don't care like I do and like many here do. I fully support the idea of others driving EVs....and perhaps we'll even get one down the road (if I live that long)...but not quite yet. Besides I don't drive that much anymore anyway...

I also get how EVs can be fun (and can perform)....SUVs can be fun too and trucks...but their just not for me. We do have (mega) solar panels on the house and I grow alot of our own food and have planted literally hundreds of trees etc etc...so perhaps I'm doing my part...anyway nobody's perfect..

A rational open minded person in a free society would welcome hearing both the positives and negatives about any technology. But instead any negatives about these new energy sources are largely suppressed. This alone should concern people and make them wonder what’s going on behind the curtain. For example, what’s behind California’s ban on existing and new nuclear reactors? The facts show that the new energy technologies will barely make a dent in their future energy needs for the foreseeable future.

We should be looking at the pros and cons of any technology and making rational decisions based on all factors. I doubt most EV evangelicals know any cons about the technology; the processes and energy required to make batteries, the economic impact and disparities. This is done on purpose and facilitated by our leaders and the industry. They don’t want people to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions. I have zero guilt about owning a (two) low mileage ICE car because I have educated myself. I have nothing against EVs, but the people who think they are better than me and “saving the planet” are living in a fantasy.

The anti fossil fuel contingent that started gaining steam in the 70s has been wrong about every prediction they’ve made. The reason is that long term climate modeling is impossible due to the large number and scale of the variables and interactions and sensitivities between variables. But we should believe them now? Based on what, surely not their track record. There are a large number of scientists that contest these predictions, but of course they are ridiculed and suppressed by the MSM and leaders.
Well said. I want freedom to choose and I want unbiased scientific research and not political scientific research. I have no issues with EVs existing, I just don't want to be forced into them and I certainly don't want ICE cars being eliminated.
 
Well said. I want freedom to choose and I want unbiased scientific research and not political scientific research. I have no issues with EVs existing, I just don't want to be forced into them and I certainly don't want ICE cars being eliminated.
I think Toyota has/had it right - plug in hybrids are the answer. Give us 40-50 miles of electric range (well within most commutes and weekend errand trips) with the ICE onboard for longer trips. This would slash our gas and emissions. I like what Porsche is doing (Cayenne plug in with either the 6 or 8), I just don't have the budget for another $100k+ car and I'm not giving up my BW :)
 
Since this thread started I have a nagging question for the OP, @M2Cto4BW, what does the "cause the old farts did their usual thing" mean?
 
I have zero guilt about owning a (two) low mileage ICE car because I have educated myself. I have nothing against EVs, but the people who think they are better than me and “saving the planet” are living in a fantasy.

The anti fossil fuel contingent that started gaining steam in the 70s has been wrong about every prediction they’ve made. The reason is that long term climate modeling is impossible due to the large number and scale of the variables and interactions and sensitivities between variables. But we should believe them now? Based on what, surely not their track record. There are a large number of scientists that contest these predictions, but of course they are ridiculed and suppressed by the MSM and leaders.
Agree with your statement about (some/many?) EV drivers and certain attitudes. And also agree with some of your other points.

Its tough to predict the future in any real sense....and while scientists have been wrong about all kinds of stuff...the data on warming seems pretty clear. I'm familiar with some of the counterarguments and there are a few that aren't just outright denialism and excuse making....but the data overwhelmingly supports rising global temps with correlation to human industrial activity. Sure planet temps have certainly fluctuated before...but not this rapidly...unless some big meteorite hits or such.

Speaking of which I used to be involved (lets say tangentially) in "planetary defense" for the DOD (retired now)...and back in the early 90s did a little study on our ability to defend the Earth from meteors and such....well basically concluded not a chance (with then current technology)....problem being sufficient detection. While most fly along certain planes of approach....not all do...and the space (to monitor) expands exponentially as you go out...and most of these things are pretty dark. etc. We've improved alot in detecting and processing since then...still not sure its doable (and for any affordable cost).
 
I think Toyota has/had it right - plug in hybrids are the answer. Give us 40-50 miles of electric range (well within most commutes and weekend errand trips) with the ICE onboard for longer trips. This would slash our gas and emissions. I like what Porsche is doing (Cayenne plug in with either the 6 or 8), I just don't have the budget for another $100k+ car and I'm not giving up my BW :)
I think hybrids are an excellent choice for many. We had one and I frustrated a lot of drivers by accelerating slowly so that I could stay in the electric mode. Of course, I drove in the right lane. We were still honked at and given the middle finger many times.
 
Super quick, decently communicative. Steering is actually a high point on the Model Y. I drove my Model Y to test drive the GR Corolla, had them on the same back roads and the Model Y had noticibly better steering feel. GR Corolla steering is actually surprisingly lacking on feedback.

It's harder to pick between the 5BW and the Model Y steering. The Model Y definitely has a faster rack, similar amounts of feedback.
Yep, this was the most surprising thing when we bought our Model 3. I expected a pretty lame car to drive but it is quite fun city driving. The steering is smaller than my 4BW and the rack is super quick. Also, the instant torque makes a lot of the driving feel effortless.

I enjoyed it so much at first, I traded my car at the time for a Model 3 Performance. Absolutely ridiculous performance. From a dig, it would take up to 80mph before my ZL1 would catch it and start pulling on it. Eventually I started missing the engagement of a manual transmission and the exhaust note and sold it when the prices went insane during the pandemic.
 
Agree with your statement about (some/many?) EV drivers and certain attitudes.

Its tough to predict the future in any real sense....and while scientists have been wrong about all kinds of stuff...the data on warming seems pretty clear. I'm familiar with some of the counterarguments and there are a few that aren't just outright denialism and excuse making....but the data overwhelmingly supports rising global temps with correlation to human industrial activity. Sure planet temps have certainly fluctuated before...but not this rapidly...unless some big meteorite hits or such.

Speaking of which I used to be involved (lets say tangentially) in "planetary defense" for the DOD (retired now)...and back in the early 90s did a little study on our ability to defend the Earth from meteors and such....well basically concluded not a chance (with then current technology)....problem being sufficient detection. While most fly along certain planes of approach....not all do...and the space (to monitor) expands exponentially as you go out...and most of these things are pretty dark. etc. We've improved alot in detecting and processing since then...still not sure its doable (and for any affordable cost).
Your statement is inaccurate. There is not overwhelming data about rising global temps with correlation to human industrial activity. The problem is that science is no longer unbiased. Many studies are funded with a political agenda.
 
Your statement is inaccurate. There is not overwhelming data about rising global temps with correlation to human industrial activity. The problem is that science is no longer unbiased. Many studies are funded with a political agenda.
Agree that "science" isn't necessarily unbiased in all cases...but in this case the data seems pretty clear.
 
Since this thread started I have a nagging question for the OP, @M2Cto4BW, what does the "cause the old farts did their usual thing" mean?
My guess is anointed, crotchety, old white men in penguin suits that always seem to think they know what is best for the general population. Then they force their beliefs onto us.
 
Pretty much the Goldilocks scenario and clearly useful. I would consider an EV for local or local+ use like this, but not as an extended trip car.
Agreed, we knew we were an ideal customer, which is why we adopted early on when the Model 3 was release and tax credit was available with no income restrictions. We purchased the least expensive model at the time. After tax credit is was $36k, so pretty much same as buying a loaded Toyota Camry at the time. My wife doesn't want to go back to ICE, she prefers the driving dynamics, tech, no more visits to the gas station, etc. It works for our use case.

I highly discourage folks from buying one as their only vehicle, especially if they drive longer distances. If you putt around town for the most part you can save about $250-$300 a month in gas along with all the other lower maintenance items, brake pads, oil changes, etc.
 
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I think hybrids are an excellent choice for many. We had one and I frustrated a lot of drivers by accelerating slowly so that I could stay in the electric mode. Of course, I drove in the right lane. We were still honked at and given the middle finger many times.
LOL...I agree that hybrids make alot of sense. Folks need to chill out on the road. Also got to understand that not everyone is skilled to drive fast and would you want them doing it. Slow drivers - in certain situations can certainly frustrate me...but generally more important things to worry about. The road will always open up at some point...and if your really in a hurry you can (usually) pass....thats why we got these fast cars isn't it?
 
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Agree that "science" isn't necessarily unbiased in all cases...but in this case the data seems pretty clear.
Not trying to be rude, but you may want to do more research. The issue is that since the 1970s this story has been repeated so many times that pretty much everyone in the general population doesn't question it. The truth is that there are a large number of scientists with the same data that conclude much different hypothesis. I'm not saying they are 100% correct, just that the data is not as clear cut as we are told.
 
Not trying to be rude, but you may want to do more research. The issue is that since the 1970s this story has been repeated so many times that pretty much everyone in the general population doesn't question it. The truth is that there are a large number of scientists with the same data that conclude much different hypothesis. I'm not saying they are 100% correct, just that the data is not as clear cut as we are told.
It's great that all of us can have a discussion about controversial topics such as man made climate change and EVs and present various different opinions without being rude or calling names. This is what Americans should do on all subjects. I find the vast majority of car enthusiasts are respectful even when discussing different viewpoints about our cars and other topics.
 

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