Wanted CT4V Blackwing Wanted - 6spd

[maxm50]

Hi all,
I’m looking for a manual CT4V Blackwing to purchase. Requirements and desires as follows. Please let me know if you are interested in selling yours!

Must-haves:
- 6spd manual
- colors: any of the silvers/grays (argent silver or satin steel), wave blue or coastal blue, possibly red. Would consider Rift. No black, no summit white.
- must not have the sky cool grey interior

Nice-to-haves:
- Red brake calipers
- Midrange seat option: alcantara cloth. I would consider the other seats but the midrange is my favorite.
- no sunroof preferred

I’m in CA but willing to travel for the car or have it shipped to me. Let me know what you have! Thanks!

 

[Roadhawk]

Best of luck! But I'm not selling mine.

I like your cars BTW - my kind of car enthusiast. I also still own a 2004 BMW ZHP (MT of course) and absolutely love driving that car. Its a very interesting contrast to the CT 4 V BW. Both are similar in size but quite different in feel and character. In many ways I still enjoy driving the ZHP better (lighter and more raw) but the BW is a hoot as well - particularly when pushed hard. It really moves out. It also is a more precise car, fantastic chassis and much better brakes,

I've always liked the ZHP shifter but it doesn't compare with the outstanding Tremec in the BW. The ZHP is certainly a bit long in the tooth as it were but essentially drives as well as it did new (I keep on on all the suspension stuff).

I would love to hear about your ZHP and also what has drawn you to the 4 V BW (though I imagine its going to be along the lines of why I was interested in this car).

 

[maxm50]

Best of luck! But I'm not selling mine.

I like your cars BTW - my kind of car enthusiast. I also still own a 2004 BMW ZHP (MT of course) and absolutely love driving that car. Its a very interesting contrast to the CT 4 V BW. Both are similar in size but quite different in feel and character. In many ways I still enjoy driving the ZHP better (lighter and more raw) but the BW is a hoot as well - particularly when pushed hard. It really moves out. It also is a more precise car, fantastic chassis and much better brakes,

I've always liked the ZHP shifter but it doesn't compare with the outstanding Tremec in the BW. The ZHP is certainly a bit long in the tooth as it were but essentially drives as well as it did new (I keep on on all the suspension stuff).

I would love to hear about your ZHP and also what has drawn you to the 4 V BW (though I imagine its going to be along the lines of why I was interested in this car).

Hi Roadhawk! That's awesome that you also have a ZHP - they really are special cars, and probably the best bang-for-buck in an enthusiast daily driver that I know of. Of course, they have all the usual old-E46 problems like window regulators and suspension bushings that go out all the time, but it sounds like you're similar to me in that you keep up on those things and they don't bother you too much. E46's are pretty easy to work on, and parts are pretty cheap, so for anyone who likes to wrench on their own cars, they're tremendous values.

When I find a CT4BW, it will indeed replace the ZHP. I've had the ZHP for less than 2 years and it meets my needs, but, I'm looking for something that does what it does but lights my hair on fire a little bit more. That's really the simplest way I can put it. The Blackwing seems to fit that bill. I never thought I'd consider a GM product, but here's how I got to desiring a Blackwing:

- Decided to search for something more thrilling than the ZHP.
- Drove an F80 M3, F87 M2, F87 M2C, G87 M2, G80 M3. Of those, the only ones I liked were the F87 "OG" M2 and the G80 M3. Liked the G80 quite a lot, actually. But it's kindof SO capable that it's just a little bit boring. And the shifter is just a regular old BMW shifter, which I've never loved. The F87 was incredible but I think not the right choice for me - too similar to the Miata (always loud and exciting).
- Drove a Mustang Mach 1. Was blown away by the Tremec. Thought about doing one for a while but then decided I want a smaller car than a Mustang.
- Googled what other cars use a Tremec 6-speed, found the Blackwing, went down the youtube review rabbit hole. Reviewers whose opinions I trust all aligned on universal praise.
- Test drove one locally and fell in love. Absolutely so much fun to rip around normal roads, and I imagine it's even better on mountain roads. I'm a mechanical engineer and it was just SO apparent that this car was put together and tuned by engineers who really, really care about an enjoyable car. All the controls just feel coherent.

Really, what I want is a Jekyll/Hyde car. I want something that's quiet and comfortable for my twice-weekly commutes to San Francisco and back (60mi each way), but that also will light my hair on fire and come alive when I'm in the mood. That requirement knocked out my other favorite, the F87 M2, which is just kind of always exciting and loud and stiff and rough, with no option to dial it all down. The Blackwing is the only car i've found that does both ends of the spectrum pretty darn well.

Curious to hear your thoughts on this hypothesis, as a fellow ZHP owner! Do I have it right, or is there something I'm missing? I've only had about 40min of seat time in the Blackwing, after all.

 

[Roadhawk]

maxm50 I think you got it completely 100% right. Its pretty much how I feel about the 4 V BW after 1 year & 10K miles of ownership. It checks all the boxes....comfort and quality and great handling and performance.

Like you it seems - I prefer smaller nimble cars....and before I bought the BW I was thinking an M2 comp as the M3 is just a bit too large for me. I'm glad i held out...though for me the 4 V BW is a bit on the large/heavy side (as are most new cars)....for instance as compared to the ZHP which I find to be near perfect. Still its a great car and a joy to drive.

Like you I have never owned or really considered a GM of any kind....but have long been aware of the ATS-V and CTS-V (as well as the Chevy SS) but always thought they were to large a car for me. I have to say the 4 V BW handles its size and weight well...but sometimes I still wish for something more M2 or ZHP sized...

Funny...several years ago an acquaintance of mine (friend of a friend) had a ZHP that he loved but wanted more bling. He was interested in a used B6 RS4....and I talked him out of it...unfortunately he totaled his ZHP a few months later...

 

[jcsperson]

I found my 4BW on Carfax. I don't see any that fit your preferences right now.

All I can say is:

 

[NewCaddy]

Maxm50, you chose correctly on the Blackwing. Trust your gut!
Unlike you, I never got a chance to test drive a 4BW before purchase. Heck, I never even previously owned any GM product for that matter. Other than getting to sit inside one of the pre-production models and heavily reviewing online reviews, it was a leap of faith to place an order and make the purchase. And no regrets, other than I’ve been slightly itching to possibly upgrade to a 5BW.

 

[maxm50]

Thanks, guys! Glad to hear that I'm making the right decision! I'll keep an eye out on all the major search sites, and if anyone comes across this thread and thinks they will be selling theirs soon, please reach out!

 

[Melon]

Hi Roadhawk! That's awesome that you also have a ZHP - they really are special cars, and probably the best bang-for-buck in an enthusiast daily driver that I know of. Of course, they have all the usual old-E46 problems like window regulators and suspension bushings that go out all the time, but it sounds like you're similar to me in that you keep up on those things and they don't bother you too much. E46's are pretty easy to work on, and parts are pretty cheap, so for anyone who likes to wrench on their own cars, they're tremendous values.

When I find a CT4BW, it will indeed replace the ZHP. I've had the ZHP for less than 2 years and it meets my needs, but, I'm looking for something that does what it does but lights my hair on fire a little bit more. That's really the simplest way I can put it. The Blackwing seems to fit that bill. I never thought I'd consider a GM product, but here's how I got to desiring a Blackwing:

- Decided to search for something more thrilling than the ZHP.
- Drove an F80 M3, F87 M2, F87 M2C, G87 M2, G80 M3. Of those, the only ones I liked were the F87 "OG" M2 and the G80 M3. Liked the G80 quite a lot, actually. But it's kindof SO capable that it's just a little bit boring. And the shifter is just a regular old BMW shifter, which I've never loved. The F87 was incredible but I think not the right choice for me - too similar to the Miata (always loud and exciting).
- Drove a Mustang Mach 1. Was blown away by the Tremec. Thought about doing one for a while but then decided I want a smaller car than a Mustang.
- Googled what other cars use a Tremec 6-speed, found the Blackwing, went down the youtube review rabbit hole. Reviewers whose opinions I trust all aligned on universal praise.
- Test drove one locally and fell in love. Absolutely so much fun to rip around normal roads, and I imagine it's even better on mountain roads. I'm a mechanical engineer and it was just SO apparent that this car was put together and tuned by engineers who really, really care about an enjoyable car. All the controls just feel coherent.

Really, what I want is a Jekyll/Hyde car. I want something that's quiet and comfortable for my twice-weekly commutes to San Francisco and back (60mi each way), but that also will light my hair on fire and come alive when I'm in the mood. That requirement knocked out my other favorite, the F87 M2, which is just kind of always exciting and loud and stiff and rough, with no option to dial it all down. The Blackwing is the only car i've found that does both ends of the spectrum pretty darn well.

Curious to hear your thoughts on this hypothesis, as a fellow ZHP owner! Do I have it right, or is there something I'm missing? I've only had about 40min of seat time in the Blackwing, after all.

We have similar automotive interests. I love the F87 M2, I have had an E36 M3, F30 328i M-sport, currently I have a fully restored E30 325i and I replaced my 1LE SS with a CT4-V.

The CT4 is definitely fun to throw around on mountain roads and in touring suspension mode, it's very docile.

You can use autotempest.com, which is how I found mine. Either do an order and wait, or keep an eye out for one that meets your specs. Happy hunting!

 

[maxm50]

I love the F87 M2

Hey Melon! Glad to hear we are cut from a similar cloth. I've owned 2 E46's (first a 328i, now the 330i ZHP) and 1 E90 335i M-sport (auto, unfortunately). I really do love the F87 M2. It's looks are the main thing pulling me towards it vs. a CT4 Blackwing. But, I'm pretty concerned about road noise and long distance driving comfort on the M2. I have somewhat sensitive ears, or perhaps more accurately I'm just not very willing to put up with a lot of road noise or exhaust drone on my 1.25hr mostly-freeway commutes to and from work, 4x per week. My E90 335i was wonderful for this - it was a great quiet cruiser. But I got bored stiff of the automatic. So then I got the ZHP, which in my opinion is great for wind noise, just fine for road noise (after putting on Continental DWS06+ tires), and merely OK for exhaust drone. That ZHP exhaust is a little droney on the freeway. I also wouldn't mind it being a touch softer (mine is on Koni Yellows and stock springs/sways).

All that is to say: I'm scared that the F87 "OG" M2 would be a big step in the louder/stiffer direction vs. my ZHP. I've read disabling the Active Sound Control goes a long way towards quieting the exhaust. I've read/watched good reports of swapping the stock rock-hard springs to Dinan height-adjustable springs (which are actually softer). I've combed threads of people adding sound deadening materials from the M235i onto the M2, which BMW deleted to save a few pounds that I'd gladly trade back. But the mere fact that I've had to research these kinds of fixes and workarounds is worrying to me. I'm worried that I would never have as comfortable/quiet of a cruise in the M2 as I could in the Blackwing, by a wide margin. If you have much experience in the M2, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. This is probably the main reason I am leaning more towards a Blackwing than the F87 M2. The M2 seems like it will be stiff and loud all the time. The Blackwing seems like it can be a cruiser when I want and a banshee when I want, thanks to the active suspension and overall better soundproofing (??).

Here's my take on all the modern BMWs I drove, in the order I drove them.

F80 M3 Comp: I drove a pristine low-mileage example and mostly liked it, except for the pretty-bad road noise (20" wheels) and rock-hard seat bottoms. This was the first of the modern BMWs I drove, so I didn't have a great frame of reference actually.

F87 M2 Comp: Didn't care for the seats, didn't love the very-boosty-feeling S55 engine, and felt like if I was gonna get this I would rather just get the M3 to have some extra space with basically the same powertrain. And M3s are about the same price or cheaper.

G87 M2: Great cruiser, comfortable and quiet, hated the dash, steering fast but boring, car overall fast as hell but a little boring. Would be a safe choice for a helluva freeway cruiser that could also have "some" fun.

G80 M3: Very impressed actually. Everything good about the G87 with two more doors and better looks, as long as its a dark-ish color IMO. The beaver teeth don't bother me in a medium/dark gray/silver. This is the ultimate "safe" choice for a dual-duty car that I want. But holy shit the piped in engine noise is absolutely awful.

F82 M4: Drove a 60kmi example and HATED it. Felt completely discoherent, suspension was stiff as a board, didn't want to turn, boosty engine, meh typical BMW transmission. This was RIGHT after getting out of the blackwing.

F87 "OG" M2: Thank god, there's actually a BMW I still like. Loved the engine, loved the sound, transmission acceptable in typical boring BMW fashion, clutch good, steering better than the G's, and holy shit it looks so good. Loved the seats. So much better than the F80 or F80 comp or F87 comp seats. I don't know why it's even a debate. Just worried about commuter livability as described above.

 

[Melon]

Most of my F87 experience is either as a passenger, or HDPE situation, so I haven't really put in the time to give a fair evaluation. The interior layout is nice, suspension is firm and the shifter rubbery. The real gem is the handling and S55. BMW seats are hard, that's an issue I have across the board. For short trips they're comfortable, it's only after 6+ hours I notice it.

I feel the S55 is more enthusiastic than the LF4, but the CT4 is much more usable, more space without a massive increase in footprint. The S55 also has the crank nose issue that made me a bit nervous. (Although it's more of an issue on modified and tuned cars.)

Something else to consider, the M2 Comp is depreciated at this point, so you can get into one with a minimal loss over the next few years. The real attention grabber is the CS, so Comp prices have receded.

 

[Melon]

F80 M3 Comp: I drove a pristine low-mileage example and mostly liked it, except for the pretty-bad road noise (20" wheels) and rock-hard seat bottoms. This was the first of the modern BMWs I drove, so I didn't have a great frame of reference actually.

F87 M2 Comp: Didn't care for the seats, didn't love the very-boosty-feeling S55 engine, and felt like if I was gonna get this I would rather just get the M3 to have some extra space with basically the same powertrain. And M3s are about the same price or cheaper.

G87 M2: Great cruiser, comfortable and quiet, hated the dash, steering fast but boring, car overall fast as hell but a little boring. Would be a safe choice for a helluva freeway cruiser that could also have "some" fun.

G80 M3: Very impressed actually. Everything good about the G87 with two more doors and better looks, as long as its a dark-ish color IMO. The beaver teeth don't bother me in a medium/dark gray/silver. This is the ultimate "safe" choice for a dual-duty car that I want. But holy shit the piped in engine noise is absolutely awful.

F82 M4: Drove a 60kmi example and HATED it. Felt completely discoherent, suspension was stiff as a board, didn't want to turn, boosty engine, meh typical BMW transmission. This was RIGHT after getting out of the blackwing.

F87 "OG" M2: Thank god, there's actually a BMW I still like. Loved the engine, loved the sound, transmission acceptable in typical boring BMW fashion, clutch good, steering better than the G's, and holy shit it looks so good. Loved the seats. So much better than the F80 or F80 comp or F87 comp seats. I don't know why it's even a debate. Just worried about commuter livability as described above.

I have heard almost VERBATIM the same comments on the G80 and G87.

One selling point to me on a new car was a warranty. I have a GMC Canyon, my girlfriends X3, and the E30. All in great shape, but not without the occasional repair needed. I didn't want to add a potentially problematic (Let's be honest here) BMW to the stable.