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CT4 BW to Dark Horse?

I've never driven one but have seen them and have seen You Tube reviews etc and I think there is much to be said positively about the Dark Horse - as folks here have done...but negatively as well - as folks here have done.

Bottom line IMO is that the CT4 V BW is a vastly superior daily driver car (particularly if you have kids). It seems to be much more livable around town and probably even on long trips etc. The gearing, power and torque works well even when not pushing it and when you want to push - it delivers is pretty much all respects. Personally I wouldn't make the switch...not even close...but you have to decide what you really want. Good call to ask what others here think and not just impulse buy though.
 
I'd say the CT4 is just as capable, you're just limited on tire width options.
Keep the turbos cool, that's the only challenge over an NA engine. (Plus the 5.0 revs to the moon)
 
I'd say the CT4 is just as capable, you're just limited on tire width options.
Keep the turbos cool, that's the only challenge over an NA engine. (Plus the 5.0 revs to the moon)
In many ways those turbos - with better low end torque - make the 4V BW a better around town daily IMO...
 
In many ways those turbos - with better low end torque - make the 4V BW a better around town daily IMO...
I can confirm, it's more fun than the 1LE.
On the track it's fun in a different way, tossing a sedan around is it's own kind of fun over a two door sports car.
 
First, let me say that I get that whole "want something different" vibe as I swap cars on average every 13 months. Yes, I have a spreadsheet.

Second, I have a CT5, not CT4, so my perspective is a little different. And I had a S550 GT, not a S650DH, so that's a slightly different animal. And the Mustang was my occasional/track car, not my DD. I bought it new.

So, let's hit the positives of the 'stang. Just a really nice V8 engine, great sounds, very linear with a good balance of torque and horsepower. The transmission is also well done, good ratio spread, heavy but easy to modulate clutch, heavy but not as notchy as GM transmission/shifter. I really had no complaints about the drivetrain.

As a track car, it's quite lacking. Sounds like that's not your concern, so we'll skip all that. However, largely because it's a Ford and extremely popular, aftermarket parts are plentiful and cheap. I upgraded my brakes and some other stuff (who can remember?) mostly by buying used from guys off of forums like this. When I decided to part with the car, I sold every bit of that stuff for close to what I had paid. For example, I bought a set of take-off "Bullitt" wheels with new Michelin PS4S tires for $1400 IIRC. I sold them, used with a couple of hard track weekends on them, for the same price. Maybe more. ;)

The car also looks good, paint, fit & finish was good and the only issue I had with mine was a check engine light that came on during a track event and went away on its own. I never bothered to investigate the cause. The seats are acceptable comfortable.

The real let down was the interior. It is just Hertz-level quality plastic. Just cheap, thin, horrible plastic everywhere. Even on a premium model with leather, it's the same plastic everywhere. I can hear you now, but Michael, they do that to save weight. Ha! Ha, I say. It's still a pig. It weighs around 4000 lbs, the same as my yuge Cadillac. It's a big car the 'stang, it feels big, it looks big. There is little to no steering feedback, the brakes perform well but again don't really communicate all that well, and the handling is... well, it depends if you get a base car, or one with the performance package or the handling package. Those tighten things up a bit, but they also degrade the ride quality quite a bit. You may not care, but I did.

It's a Ford, it's built to a price point, and I think the base car with no options, before the pandemic when you could get them quite cheap after discounts and such if you didn't option it up, those were a good value. Now with the higher prices, fewer discounts and did I mention the higher price, eh, not so much of a value. Since I don't need a back seat, I replaced the Mustang duties with a Corvette, which is a better car in every respect (except perhaps the shifter) and much more capable out of the box.
Nice unbiased write up!
 
Haha haven't got to spreadsheet level yet but maybe some day. Appreciate the perspectives. If my kid was a little older I'd go Corvette too, and if I could swing a CT5 that'd be even better!
I've had 3 Mustangs with the last 2 being Coyote GTs. I don't have any experience with the DH, but I do have some limited experience with the S550 Mach 1 and I'd def go that route over the DH. I think it was during one of the Savagegeese videos that they mentioned the engineers of the DH were calling it the Mach 1 behind the scenes because it's basically a Mach 1 with some new skin and a few extra lbs (if I'm not mistaken the DH was only about 50 lbs lighter than the S550 GT500). Also, I believe it was the same team that worked on the GT350 steering that tuned the Mach 1, but not the DH, which would make sense since some reviewers have prefered the Mach 1's steering to the DH. If you can't or don't want to go GT350, the Mach 1 is probably the best and most Blackwing-esque of the modern Mustangs.

I really like Mustangs, I think the Coyote sounds unbelievably good with the active exhaust and the price-to-enjoyment ratio is good enough for what I tend to look for in a vehicle. Having said that, the 4BW is the better overall vehicle if you can forego the exhaust sound difference.

I don't have any experience with the 4BW, but I assume it has the common wall of torque that is inherent with most modern boosted engines. The Coyote is a very high revving engine so if you like to cruise around town and shift under 3.5K rpms it will feel significantly slower than it really has any right to, and will probably feel wayyyyy slower than your 4BW. Having said that, the Coyote loves to reward you for chasing the hp high in the powerband, it is intoxicating revving it to 7K and realizing you still have another 500 rpm left! I'm someone who enjoys a high-revving NA engine, so I do miss it at times, but I understand why some people don't like it depending on the type of driving they like to do.

It is cliche, but you really should go out and test drive whatever vehicle interests you, or better yet go rent one for a few days if you can. You know yourself and what your likes are, so you should get a good idea as to whether a vehicle will suit you after driving it.
 
I've had 3 Mustangs with the last 2 being Coyote GTs. I don't have any experience with the DH, but I do have some limited experience with the S550 Mach 1 and I'd def go that route over the DH. I think it was during one of the Savagegeese videos that they mentioned the engineers of the DH were calling it the Mach 1 behind the scenes because it's basically a Mach 1 with some new skin and a few extra lbs (if I'm not mistaken the DH was only about 50 lbs lighter than the S550 GT500). Also, I believe it was the same team that worked on the GT350 steering that tuned the Mach 1, but not the DH, which would make sense since some reviewers have prefered the Mach 1's steering to the DH. If you can't or don't want to go GT350, the Mach 1 is probably the best and most Blackwing-esque of the modern Mustangs.

I really like Mustangs, I think the Coyote sounds unbelievably good with the active exhaust and the price-to-enjoyment ratio is good enough for what I tend to look for in a vehicle. Having said that, the 4BW is the better overall vehicle if you can forego the exhaust sound difference.

I don't have any experience with the 4BW, but I assume it has the common wall of torque that is inherent with most modern boosted engines. The Coyote is a very high revving engine so if you like to cruise around town and shift under 3.5K rpms it will feel significantly slower than it really has any right to, and will probably feel wayyyyy slower than your 4BW. Having said that, the Coyote loves to reward you for chasing the hp high in the powerband, it is intoxicating revving it to 7K and realizing you still have another 500 rpm left! I'm someone who enjoys a high-revving NA engine, so I do miss it at times, but I understand why some people don't like it depending on the type of driving they like to do.

It is cliche, but you really should go out and test drive whatever vehicle interests you, or better yet go rent one for a few days if you can. You know yourself and what your likes are, so you should get a good idea as to whether a vehicle will suit you after driving it.
I've had 3 Mustangs with the last 2 being Coyote GTs. I don't have any experience with the DH, but I do have some limited experience with the S550 Mach 1 and I'd def go that route over the DH. I think it was during one of the Savagegeese videos that they mentioned the engineers of the DH were calling it the Mach 1 behind the scenes because it's basically a Mach 1 with some new skin and a few extra lbs (if I'm not mistaken the DH was only about 50 lbs lighter than the S550 GT500). Also, I believe it was the same team that worked on the GT350 steering that tuned the Mach 1, but not the DH, which would make sense since some reviewers have prefered the Mach 1's steering to the DH. If you can't or don't want to go GT350, the Mach 1 is probably the best and most Blackwing-esque of the modern Mustangs.

I really like Mustangs, I think the Coyote sounds unbelievably good with the active exhaust and the price-to-enjoyment ratio is good enough for what I tend to look for in a vehicle. Having said that, the 4BW is the better overall vehicle if you can forego the exhaust sound difference.

I don't have any experience with the 4BW, but I assume it has the common wall of torque that is inherent with most modern boosted engines. The Coyote is a very high revving engine so if you like to cruise around town and shift under 3.5K rpms it will feel significantly slower than it really has any right to, and will probably feel wayyyyy slower than your 4BW. Having said that, the Coyote loves to reward you for chasing the hp high in the powerband, it is intoxicating revving it to 7K and realizing you still have another 500 rpm left! I'm someone who enjoys a high-revving NA engine, so I do miss it at times, but I understand why some people don't like it depending on the type of driving they like to do.

It is cliche, but you really should go out and test drive whatever vehicle interests you, or better yet go rent one for a few days if you can. You know yourself and what your likes are, so you should get a good idea as to whether a vehicle will suit you after driving it.
Thanks for the feedback. I enjoy going to redline and actually being rewarded for it vs the drop off in some of the forced induction cars. I haven't had a NA car in a while so that would also be part of the different feel is be after, with the gt350 being the pinnacle of that. Still a little uneasy about the older ones that are more in my price range though
 
Thanks for the feedback. I enjoy going to redline and actually being rewarded for it vs the drop off in some of the forced induction cars. I haven't had a NA car in a while so that would also be part of the different feel is be after, with the gt350 being the pinnacle of that. Still a little uneasy about the older ones that are more in my price range though
if youre gonna get a gt350 def do your research. i wouldnt get a 2016 because the track pack wasnt standard and a lot of cars were overheating. 2017+ solved that. but then the earlier models had engine failure (cant recall the exact details) but that was addressed sometime in 2019-2020
and yea, they havent depreciated much so they are definitely expensive. if youre note going to track this car I think the gt350 is overkill. i was murdering twice as expensive porsche's all day on track with it but otherwise i think mach 1 or even regular gt is better bet for non-track use
 
Thanks for the feedback. I enjoy going to redline and actually being rewarded for it vs the drop off in some of the forced induction cars. I haven't had a NA car in a while so that would also be part of the different feel is be after, with the gt350 being the pinnacle of that. Still a little uneasy about the older ones that are more in my price range though
If you enjoy revving to redline then the LT1 or Coyote is for you. I'd go check out a Mustang and see what you think. Even if it's a base GT. Just get a feel for the quality, ergonomics, interior space, etc.
 
Intoxicating...........is revving a GT350 to it's 8,250 rpm redline. The sound track is glorious. If you're going to look, look at 2019-20 models. I sold mine in January of this year for more than what it stickered for.

20231222_123127.jpg 20231222_123029.jpg
 
Intoxicating...........is revving a GT350 to it's 8,250 rpm redline. The sound track is glorious. If you're going to look, look at 2019-20 models. I sold mine in January of this year for more than what it stickered for.

View attachment 28095 View attachment 28096
Oh man, I like that color too. The 19+ are priced a solid 10-15k higher for equivalent mileage so it's tough. Why'd you end up selling, CT5 BW fit the bill?
 
Absolutely do not do it.

The Dark Horse is basically an inflation adjusted Mach 1 and the only good thing about a Mach 1 is the handling package which this does not have.

If you want to move to a pony car I would not suggest a Mustang, unless you can find a nice well used Mach 1 with handling package. I would suggest a used Camaro SS 1LE as the performance bargain of the century.

I've owned lots of vehicles the last 5 years and my buddy owns a Mach 1 with handling package. If you want to ditch your 4BW to get a similar driving experience but with more V8 sound I would get a 6th gen Camaro SS 1LE.
 
Absolutely do not do it.

The Dark Horse is basically an inflation adjusted Mach 1 and the only good thing about a Mach 1 is the handling package which this does not have.

If you want to move to a pony car I would not suggest a Mustang, unless you can find a nice well used Mach 1 with handling package. I would suggest a used Camaro SS 1LE as the performance bargain of the century.

I've owned lots of vehicles the last 5 years and my buddy owns a Mach 1 with handling package. If you want to ditch your 4BW to get a similar driving experience but with more V8 sound I would get a 6th gen Camaro SS 1LE.

I like the Camaro, probably ZL1 over 1LE given the price points, but I'm hesitant on the visibility . Sitting in the mustang felt better as a DD for me, more comfortable/spacious in a way
 
Visibility is overblown, if the Camaro has a rearview camera mirror you will have more visibility then a Mustang.

Position your mirrors correctly and with the rear view camera mirror you will have no blind spots and the better driving vehicle.
 
People griped about the same visibility problems with the 4th gen F-body (Camaro and Firebird) cars. I had a 95 Z28 for more 15+ years. When I first drove one, I thought it was hard to see out of, but it took a very short time to get familiar with and I was very confident with putting it in any parking spot. OTOH, my 5V still gives me concern when parking and going around parking lot 90° curbs. Thank goodness for the cameras.
 
Why'd you end up selling, CT5 BW fit the bill?
I thoroughly enjoyed the car, but after 4-1/2 years, it was time to move on while a V-8 manual transmission was still available. As I said, selling it for more than what I paid for it new, was the kicker. Took me almost a year and a half to secure the Blackwing, but I have no regrets. It definitely fits the bill.
 
The sim racing interior really speaks to the target market for the Mustang.

Between the new car market offerings and overall AWESOMENESS if the 5, I've completely lost interest in changing cars.
 
The sim racing interior really speaks to the target market for the Mustang.

Between the new car market offerings and overall AWESOMENESS if the 5, I've completely lost interest in changing cars.
This.

Unlike many of you here - when I buy a car I plan on keeping it for a good long time...and I rarely regret that or feel the need to replace it with the "next new thing" etc. I fall in love with my cars and the experiences I have with them. OK thats just me....but I feel others here may end up (forced essentially perhaps) to be more like me. The choices for enthusiast cars is dwindling in many regards - not saying that there aren't many great cars being made now....but the trend is pretty obvious IMO. Anyway just my $.02 for what its worth.
 
Camaros are awesome cars. The visibility thing is WAY overblown. You'll adjust quickly.

Do NOT get the 1LE for daily driving. It is purpose built to torture the occupants on normal streets.

Having said that, if your kids can't get themselves in and out of their car seats, I think you'll regret a coupe. When I got my 5th gen, my kids had just graduated out of car seats. That's why I got it. :)
 
Camaros are awesome cars. The visibility thing is WAY overblown. You'll adjust quickly.

Do NOT get the 1LE for daily driving. It is purpose built to torture the occupants on normal streets.

Having said that, if your kids can't get themselves in and out of their car seats, I think you'll regret a coupe. When I got my 5th gen, my kids had just graduated out of car seats. That's why I got it. :)
Yeah I have a while to go for that, was just think about it today when I was putting my son in his seat how challenging it'd be to try and lean back in a coupe and get him buckled while he's doing toddler stuff and moving all over the place
 

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