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CT4 BW to Dark Horse?

FI Fiend

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Jun 3, 2023
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Location
South Jersey
V-Series Cadillac(s)?
2023 CT4 V BW
I spotted a '24 Mustang Dark Horse listed for $67k ($72K MSRP). After stopping by, they offered $54k trade in for my 2023 CT4 BW w/ 6500 miles ($67k MSRP, got it for $63k) and another $1k off the DH for $66k sale price. So I could essentially swap to the DH for ~$12k. DH is a manual like mine, no handling package, but premium trim and recaros.

Pros for me would largely be a new experience and getting the v8 soundtrack back. Cons for me would be losing four doors with my two young kids and the slight jump in insurance and payment (prob near $100/month total)

Anybody make the move to or from a mustang and have any thoughts?
 

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Save your money and keep the better handling all around CT4 The Dark Horse is some pretty cheap crap and way overpriced imo. I see them being ditched left/right at dealerships. They pretty cheap go look and feel one..............
 
I'd just say look at everything in your price range. If you want a dark horse, go for it. It's a great handling car from what I've seen in the reviews.
 
I'd look for a nice, low mileage 1LE first, mostly to save money.

The dark horse is a fine machine, I just feel like Ford is asking too much when you're up against the M3/2 in pricing.

I really want to like the Camaro and was even scouting some ZL1s, but I just don't think I could get over the lack of visibility.

Agree on the pricing, but oddly enough I can't seem to find anything else that intrigues me even in that range. A used mach 1 in the mid to high 40s is another consideration that gets me most of the attributes of the DH just with the older styling.
 
Yeah, I don't blame you. A 2SS with the camera in the mirror helps a ton but I was amazed when I got my CT4 how much better the visibility is over the 1LE I had.
 
Save your money and keep the better handling all around CT4 The Dark Horse is some pretty cheap crap and way overpriced imo. I see them being ditched left/right at dealerships. They pretty cheap go look and feel one..............

I like the premium one I sat in, at least the seats, shifter, and some other touch points. Admittedly didn't spent a lot of time in it though
 
I really want to like the Camaro and was even scouting some ZL1s, but I just don't think I could get over the lack of visibility.

Agree on the pricing, but oddly enough I can't seem to find anything else that intrigues me even in that range. A used mach 1 in the mid to high 40s is another consideration that gets me most of the attributes of the DH just with the older styling.
Have you driven a 6 gen Camaro? I daily drove one for years (1LE) and always thought the whole visibility thing was so overplayed if you’re halfway aware of your surroundings. If you want the v8 soundtrack would you consider a GT350 with the revised Voodoo? No way I could consider the DH at its price point when there’s so many other great cars in that price range.
 
OP - you are gonna absolutely HATE the steering feel of the S650 compared to your BW. For a car with such potent performance, the DH feels very numb and disconnected.
 
Is this your daily? Are your kids in car seats? I’m not sure how often you are driving with your kids and how young they are but if this is your only car that could get annoying fast. I have a hard enough time putting my kids (both in car seats) in the small backseat area of the BW I wouldn’t want to add the obstacle of doing it through the front door with the Mustang. I’ve not driven a Mustang DH but I’m guessing it’s also louder inside and the ride quality isn’t nearly as nice. If you have another car as your daily maybe this makes sense but I don’t think this is a good choice unless it’s your 2nd fun car then maybe it makes sense for you.
 
I like the premium one I sat in, at least the seats, shifter, and some other touch points. Admittedly didn't spent a lot of time in it though
I am not saying it just to say it because it's Ford or Mustang etc. They really are cheaply built.
 
Anybody make the move to or from a mustang and have any thoughts?
First, let me say that I get that whole "want something different" vibe as I swap cars on average every 13 months. Yes, I have a spreadsheet.

Second, I have a CT5, not CT4, so my perspective is a little different. And I had a S550 GT, not a S650DH, so that's a slightly different animal. And the Mustang was my occasional/track car, not my DD. I bought it new.

So, let's hit the positives of the 'stang. Just a really nice V8 engine, great sounds, very linear with a good balance of torque and horsepower. The transmission is also well done, good ratio spread, heavy but easy to modulate clutch, heavy but not as notchy as GM transmission/shifter. I really had no complaints about the drivetrain.

As a track car, it's quite lacking. Sounds like that's not your concern, so we'll skip all that. However, largely because it's a Ford and extremely popular, aftermarket parts are plentiful and cheap. I upgraded my brakes and some other stuff (who can remember?) mostly by buying used from guys off of forums like this. When I decided to part with the car, I sold every bit of that stuff for close to what I had paid. For example, I bought a set of take-off "Bullitt" wheels with new Michelin PS4S tires for $1400 IIRC. I sold them, used with a couple of hard track weekends on them, for the same price. Maybe more. ;)

The car also looks good, paint, fit & finish was good and the only issue I had with mine was a check engine light that came on during a track event and went away on its own. I never bothered to investigate the cause. The seats are acceptable comfortable.

The real let down was the interior. It is just Hertz-level quality plastic. Just cheap, thin, horrible plastic everywhere. Even on a premium model with leather, it's the same plastic everywhere. I can hear you now, but Michael, they do that to save weight. Ha! Ha, I say. It's still a pig. It weighs around 4000 lbs, the same as my yuge Cadillac. It's a big car the 'stang, it feels big, it looks big. There is little to no steering feedback, the brakes perform well but again don't really communicate all that well, and the handling is... well, it depends if you get a base car, or one with the performance package or the handling package. Those tighten things up a bit, but they also degrade the ride quality quite a bit. You may not care, but I did.

It's a Ford, it's built to a price point, and I think the base car with no options, before the pandemic when you could get them quite cheap after discounts and such if you didn't option it up, those were a good value. Now with the higher prices, fewer discounts and did I mention the higher price, eh, not so much of a value. Since I don't need a back seat, I replaced the Mustang duties with a Corvette, which is a better car in every respect (except perhaps the shifter) and much more capable out of the box.
 
if you have your kids in the car or use your back seats for anything else on a regular basis dont do it. every time i've bought a coupe, even one with decent size back seats within a couple months i'm questioning why i did this when there were plenty other 4 door options. and personally, i think GM v8's sound better than Ford but thats subjective. obviously they both sound better than the lf4 haha
 
Have you driven a 6 gen Camaro? I daily drove one for years (1LE) and always thought the whole visibility thing was so overplayed if you’re halfway aware of your surroundings. If you want the v8 soundtrack would you consider a GT350 with the revised Voodoo? No way I could consider the DH at its price point when there’s so many other great cars in that price range.

I did drive one, but probably not long enough to give it a chance.

The GT350 and voodoo are also really interesting to me. I still was doing some research on reliability though, was seeing some mixed feedback particularly on the early models.
 
Is this your daily? Are your kids in car seats? I’m not sure how often you are driving with your kids and how young they are but if this is your only car that could get annoying fast. I have a hard enough time putting my kids (both in car seats) in the small backseat area of the BW I wouldn’t want to add the obstacle of doing it through the front door with the Mustang. I’ve not driven a Mustang DH but I’m guessing it’s also louder inside and the ride quality isn’t nearly as nice. If you have another car as your daily maybe this makes sense but I don’t think this is a good choice unless it’s your 2nd fun car then maybe it makes sense for you.
Yeah good call, I basically only take my 2.5 yr old son to cars and coffee in it lol I just had a daughter and figured I'd probably want to bring the whole fam eventually but we have my wife's car for family stuff
 
First, let me say that I get that whole "want something different" vibe as I swap cars on average every 13 months. Yes, I have a spreadsheet.

Second, I have a CT5, not CT4, so my perspective is a little different. And I had a S550 GT, not a S650DH, so that's a slightly different animal. And the Mustang was my occasional/track car, not my DD. I bought it new.

So, let's hit the positives of the 'stang. Just a really nice V8 engine, great sounds, very linear with a good balance of torque and horsepower. The transmission is also well done, good ratio spread, heavy but easy to modulate clutch, heavy but not as notchy as GM transmission/shifter. I really had no complaints about the drivetrain.

As a track car, it's quite lacking. Sounds like that's not your concern, so we'll skip all that. However, largely because it's a Ford and extremely popular, aftermarket parts are plentiful and cheap. I upgraded my brakes and some other stuff (who can remember?) mostly by buying used from guys off of forums like this. When I decided to part with the car, I sold every bit of that stuff for close to what I had paid. For example, I bought a set of take-off "Bullitt" wheels with new Michelin PS4S tires for $1400 IIRC. I sold them, used with a couple of hard track weekends on them, for the same price. Maybe more. ;)

The car also looks good, paint, fit & finish was good and the only issue I had with mine was a check engine light that came on during a track event and went away on its own. I never bothered to investigate the cause. The seats are acceptable comfortable.

The real let down was the interior. It is just Hertz-level quality plastic. Just cheap, thin, horrible plastic everywhere. Even on a premium model with leather, it's the same plastic everywhere. I can hear you now, but Michael, they do that to save weight. Ha! Ha, I say. It's still a pig. It weighs around 4000 lbs, the same as my yuge Cadillac. It's a big car the 'stang, it feels big, it looks big. There is little to no steering feedback, the brakes perform well but again don't really communicate all that well, and the handling is... well, it depends if you get a base car, or one with the performance package or the handling package. Those tighten things up a bit, but they also degrade the ride quality quite a bit. You may not care, but I did.

It's a Ford, it's built to a price point, and I think the base car with no options, before the pandemic when you could get them quite cheap after discounts and such if you didn't option it up, those were a good value. Now with the higher prices, fewer discounts and did I mention the higher price, eh, not so much of a value. Since I don't need a back seat, I replaced the Mustang duties with a Corvette, which is a better car in every respect (except perhaps the shifter) and much more capable out of the box.
Haha haven't got to spreadsheet level yet but maybe some day. Appreciate the perspectives. If my kid was a little older I'd go Corvette too, and if I could swing a CT5 that'd be even better!
 
I did drive one, but probably not long enough to give it a chance.

The GT350 and voodoo are also really interesting to me. I still was doing some research on reliability though, was seeing some mixed feedback particularly on the early models.
I’m not saying the blind spot doesn’t exist but the Camaro is just a phenomenal car. Definitely wouldn’t write it off for only that reason.

Early Voodoos definitely are a hard pass but the revised engines seem to be reliable. I’ll be considering one when the time comes for me to add a track car to the garage.
 
I did drive one, but probably not long enough to give it a chance.

The GT350 and voodoo are also really interesting to me. I still was doing some research on reliability though, was seeing some mixed feedback particularly on the early models.
gt350 engine is entirely different. not the best execution of a flat plane crank ever but its a good attempt and different than a cross plane which is what all other american v8's have been
gt350 is also setup to be more of a track car. dark horse is still more of a sports car imo
 
I did drive one, but probably not long enough to give it a chance.

The GT350 and voodoo are also really interesting to me. I still was doing some research on reliability though, was seeing some mixed feedback particularly on the early models.
GT350 will hold it's value a lot better than a dark horse.
 
I’m not saying the blind spot doesn’t exist but the Camaro is just a phenomenal car.
On the street and while parking it's annoying but not unmanageable. The Camaro is also a larger car in dimensions, notably wider.

On the track, who needs to look behind you? Lol.
 

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