TC/Stabilitrak overly intrusive

[AC2024]

Hi All,

Relatively new CT4 BW owner. Coming from BMW world (other car is a highly modified 335).

I LOVE the Blackwing. I was cross shopping vs a G80 M3 and the cross shopping lasted as long as my first test drive of the BW. This is DRIVERS car and I am enfatuated.

That's the good part.

I am ending my break in period and starting to ramp up the attack. I am shocked by how intrusive the TC/ESC is on this car. Mind you, in warm dry conditions I drive the in Vmode (full stiff everything except engine noise at 1/2) with the double tap to engage PTM which is typically set in Sport. I would think I would get a bit of slack from the nannies, but god, it seems I get none. When trying to right foot steer just a little bit to tighten a line I get whacked with this sledgehammer of power cut/braking. This is the one area where the BMW cars seems to be drastically superior - in sport+ the car will let you have a bit of yaw and slim before engaging and when it does, its in a gradual and gentle

I dont really want to go to Track 1 or 2 as my understanding is that turns off all the nannies completely.

Am I doing something wrong? can someone advise on a good set up for canyon carving that will allow a sping of dynamic traction and yaw without everything being totally off (AKA eventually in the ditch mode)? From reading thread and the user manual, I thought PTM Sport would be the right setting.... but there is very little "sporty" about it.

 

[Orange Whip]

Start here: Track Mode

 

[rubberduck]

Yes, you’re in the wrong mode. You want Track/Dry or Track/Sport. With those you will be able to spin out if you want or don’t want and do it unintentionally.

 

[AC2024]

Thanks. I've looked through the link, the OM, and various threads.
I was hoping that Vmode would do it since it just an easier routine on start up. So, if I have my Vmode with PTM on Race 1, that shouldn't allow me any yaw moment or wheel slip? That seems crazy and hard to believe. What is the point of a Vmode (sounds fast) and a PTM setting of "Race 1" (sounds fast) if they don't allow any yaw/slip?

So, to let the car give me a little authority over the rear end I need to set track mode at start and then double tap TC to enable PTM and select dry/sport? That's brutal. Besides that - does it keep a base level of nannies on.

I am looking for the "right amount" of stupid, lol.

 

[Ty88]

I dont really want to go to Track 1 or 2 as my understanding is that turns off all the nannies completely.

Not true. A small amount of Nannies still present in these modes.

 

[rubberduck]

Thanks. I've looked through the link, the OM, and various threads.
I was hoping that Vmode would do it since it just an easier routine on start up. So, if I have my Vmode with PTM on Race 1, that shouldn't allow me any yaw moment or wheel slip? That seems crazy and hard to believe. What is the point of a Vmode (sounds fast) and a PTM setting of "Race 1" (sounds fast) if they don't allow any yaw/slip?

So, to let the car give me a little authority over the rear end I need to set track mode at start and then double tap TC to enable PTM and select dry/sport? That's brutal. Besides that - does it keep a base level of nannies on.

I am looking for the "right amount" of stupid, lol.

Since you don't want to read the manual the steps are: 1) Setup V-mode first with the sliders and select the PTM mode you want, 2) when you want V-mode and the PTM setting, press V-mode button twice. You should go to Spring Mountain and your questions will be answered.

 

[AC2024]

Not true. A small amount of Nannies still present in these modes.

Good to know. I’ll try it and see how it feels. That said, I am still confused in that I point that was the point of the configurable VMode. If i set everything to “high” and PTM to sport, how is that different feom track mode? Its just that a double tap of the V button is way easier than finding track mode and then finding sport PTM

 

[AC2024]

Since you don't want to read the manual the steps are: 1) Setup V-mode first with the sliders and select the PTM mode you want, 2) when you want V-mode and the PTM setting, press V-mode button twice. You should go to Spring Mountain and your questions will be answered.

Lovely little forum muscles. I’ve read the manual literally cover to cover. I’ve re read the PTM and drive mode sections several times. What you describe is literally exactly what I have been doing, specially with PTM set to sport and also race 1- the reason for the post is that in that configuration, the car still pulls power abruptly with the faintest yaw action. I drove the car this evening after getting some helpful replies to this thread and track mode indeed does give the dynamics I am looking for, and it is certainly different that Vmode with double tap PTM sport.

 

[rubberduck]

The interface takes some time to get used to. There are multiple ways to get the same settings, V-mode, mode button, PTM toggle. Track/Sport should not be cutting power the way you describe. If your not getting sideways with tires squealing then something is not setup right.

 

[AC2024]

So, i have Vmode on full send except engine sound which is middle (the overrun burbles on track engine sound are a bit silly IMHO) and i have my Vmode PTM now in “race 1”. You mention track, but it seems track is not a PTM setting, but rather a drive mode.

I did find a few other threads where folks seem to indicate that track driving mode is a very different dynamic than Vmode with everything turned up.

I guess Ill continue to play around. Its just fairly annyoing to toggle the mode and then toggle the PTM, vs a Vmode double tap.

 

[rubberduck]

PTM is only available in Track mode.

 

[AC2024]

Note that Cmode is not included in the table. PTM is configurable for Vmode in my car for sure. Look at the bottom right setting. 1 V button tap gets you your Vmode. 2 V mode taps gets yoy Vmode+plus PTM settings.

Also, its silly to think that there are only 5 parameters affecting driving dynamics. I am sure the DME more elements affectingn the various modes. Of note there is nothing in the VMode configurator related to the eLSD lock up algorithm.

Im sticking to my story that Track mode is a fundamentally different drivijg mode that cant be fully replicated in a Vmode config.

 

[rubberduck]

I think the only person here that can clarify your theory is Mirza.

 

[Super Saloon]

PTM is available in V Mode.

I had the same issues as you with regular traction control on, but when I turn it off and have PTM in sport I do get a little more slip and less interference. I haven’t tried kicking the back end out yet though.

 

[Champale]

Interesting thread because I have been confusing myself with the modes, too. On my 5BW, it seems like Sport driving mode plus holding down the TC button until the 2nd light comes on removes most of the nannies but defintiely not all. V mode plus holding TC button down until the 2 lights are on seems to remove all nannies as far as I can tell and you can definitely get as sideways as you want.

 

[raptor5244]

FWIW,

As you have experienced, Track Mode gets you access to the various PTM Modes. PTM modes use predictive slip angles to modulate power as well as using selective braking, spark retard, etc.

Competitive Driving Mode (double tap of TC button while in Sport Mode) disables Traction Control but relaxes the StabiliTrak (yaw sensor) to allow for greater yaw/slip angles so you can drift the car a bit. If this system behaves the same way as my Corvettes did then main difference between CMode and PTM, is that Cmode is reactive.

Competitive Driving Mode should not be equated to PTM. Performance Traction Management is exactly what it says, utilizing an advanced traction management system for managing & enhancing traction. You can literally feel it engaging when you are applying throttle to get the maximum traction, keeping the tires right at the limit of adhesion. It's different than normal Traction Control, which is often too aggressive in cutting power, designed more for safety than performance. Competitive Drive Mode is more about dialing back Traction Control and StabiliTrak so they are less intrusive. I am not sure of the max slip angle but CMode will let you get sideways quite and bit before it cuts power and starts applying the brakes at the necessary wheels to prevent a full spin. Easy to test on a wet road.

Lastly, if you find a suitable road and accept the risk you can hold the TC button down for 5-8 seconds and it will turn all the nannies off.

 

[Turtleb00st]

i usually drive around in ptm race 2. If allows a lot of slit angle/sliding, but you can still hear the ecu play with timing to limit power if you get too sideways combined with steering angle.

 

[BimmerFan]

Excuse me for a moment while I put on my old man hat.

First, to the OP's point, I do believe that the BMW traction/stability management systems (me coming from a G82 M4) are superior to GM's. I've experienced in both Corvettes and the BW, FWIW.

Second, seriously guys, don't be doing this crap on public streets. If you are losing traction at all, to any degree, on public streets, you are a menace and endangering other people. Save it for the track. Or an empty parking lot.

 

[Orange Whip]

Excuse me for a moment while I put on my old man hat.

First, to the OP's point, I do believe that the BMW traction/stability management systems (me coming from a G82 M4) are superior to GM's. I've experienced in both Corvettes and the BW, FWIW.

Second, seriously guys, don't be doing this crap on public streets. If you are losing traction at all, to any degree, on public streets, you are a menace and endangering other people. Save it for the track. Or an empty parking lot.

Would you mind expanding on this? I'm curious what you mean by "superior"...less complicated, better programmed, other?

 

[jbawden]

GM's traction and stability logic are programmed for a fast lap time, not hooning on back roads. If you have been to Spring Mountain, you'll be shown how the level of rotation needed for the fastest lap is still available, but if you're looking put down darkies on every corner exit then yes, BMW systems are better.