CT4-V Some thoughts after test driving an auto 4-v blackwing, and asking for some advice regarding manual vs auto

[cjz]

It does look SO good. I think that Alfa is the best looking daily driver car I've ever seen.

Why did you cross it out because it's an alfa? Reliability concerns?

Yep, reliability is the main reason

 

[raptor5244]

The A10 and M6 are both great but if you think you will miss the engagement of rowing your own gears once the honeymoon wears off then do yourself a favor and get the manual. The manual transmission in these Blackwings is a big part of what what makes them special. Paddle shifting is not satisfying enough for me, if it were I would be driving a C8.

 

[cjz]

As someone who has both in the same household it’s close but I don’t think the rs3 is a much better car if we’re talking auto vs auto. The blackwing is still more fun to drive and rides better too. The rs3 is more practical and more fuel efficient. The rs3 engine is nice though.

My impression test driving the audi's was that its a very managed experience: Acceleration is fast, but kinda "autobahn fast" where it is just a number. Blackwing on the other hand feels more fast, because you have to control it a bit more.

Agreed on the practicality, the fact that the seats fully fold without the small ridge in the middle is great. That chassis reinforcement on the blackwing resulting in the small divider between rear seats and trunk when folded really annoys me lol

 

[cjz]

Also thanks yall folks for the input, decided to go with a blackwing with a 6 speed manual. The cruise control should be enough to get me through road trips anyways

 

[MookdocOE]

It’s only because you haven’t had the opportunity to put miles on an A10, we have both 5BW, yes the manual keeps you busy(there’s no choice) the A10 is simply a joy to drive quieter better fuel mileage more relaxed if you can believe that. Our A10 is the only choice on every drive the manual sits in garage.

Yeah, it's cool and all to to have the Manual in the bigger 5 but I opted with the A10 and it's perfect for the car. I am seeking a manual and feel the 4 is Definitely the manual car you want vs the 5

 

[rubberduck]

From a practical standpoint all signals point to AT for nearly all vehicles. The debate on MT vs. AT is at its heart one that is driven by emotion - The brain’s response to sensory input and constructed experiences. So the only right answer is your answer. But be careful as rational thinking may force the wrong decision.

From that standpoint I can rationally understand why a physically able person would want the AT. But I can’t grasp why I would want one. I find immense enjoyment in driving the 5BW 6M, but that’s just me. I suspect that people that don’t enjoy it have expectations that aren’t being met. For example, to hit redline at every shift.

 

[668LT4]

I am seeking a manual and feel the 4 is Definitely the manual car you want vs the 5

The manual 5 is not for everyone. I had a manual 4 as I waited for my manual 5 to arrive. The cars have very different personalities. The 4 is an extremely satisfying vehicle. The 5 offers a very different and unique feel. There are many turbocharged v6s out there. But a manual shifting Supercharged V8 ... for me that will always be the most special version of the Cadillac Blackwing.

 

[Roadhawk]

The manual 5 is not for everyone. I had a manual 4 as I waited for my manual 5 to arrive. The cars have very different personalities. The 4 is an extremely satisfying vehicle. The 5 offers a very different and unique feel. There are many turbocharged v6s out there. But a manual shifting Supercharged V8 ... for me that will always be the most special version of the Cadillac Blackwing.

I agree that the 5 BW is the most special BW and is a special car in the pantheon of cars in a way the 4 will never be.

That being said - and I've never driven a 5 (just as I've never done heroin....and in part for similar reasons - afraid I would enjoy it too much and become addicted)

But I see two "problems" with the 5. For me the 4 is large....and the 5 would be - for me - just way too big....thats just my preference for a car I like to drive.

The other issue is the fact (often reported) that its difficult to drive flat out on public roads...even an issue with the 4 to some extent. While a real issue I also see it as overblown. The 4 BW is a high performance car - as is my GTI and my prior Audi S4. All can get to triple digits very quickly when pushed. Well I still finds all sorts of situations to stomp down on them - even if for brief thrills. And there are plenty of driving experiences where you can use the cars power and agility to great satisfaction even if not at WOT. Still there is the old adage that its more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow (and there is a point to that fer sure)

As for MT vs auto....I always find a MT more engaging - though I understand that there are situations where an autos gearing is better suited to engine characteristics and paddle shifting can be engaging as well. Still its MT for me....and the 4 over the 5 (but again....thats just me)...

 

[668LT4]

The other issue is the fact (often reported) that its difficult to drive flat out on public roads...

No doubt the size alone can be the choice for some buyers. Let's not forget budget too. An average 5 is going be be 30-40k more than a 4? Lot of $ there.

Having owned both, I disagree with the sentiment that a 5 is too much for the streets but a 4 is not (not exactly what you are saying, but that has been a theme since the cars came out). I would almost say it is the opposite. The 4 is damn near as fast as a 5. The 4 needs to be wrung out to higher RPMs. In the 5, you can be at 2000RPM in most any gear, and blipping the peddle gets the car motivated real quick. That is part of the unique feeling the 5 offers that intoxicates me.

I guess if it is only "flat out" on public roads, the 5 does require much more attention on the traction side of things.

My track experience is limited to my (2) Spring Mountain visits (one for each car). As a novice, I will say I was more comfortable tracking the 4 than the 5. I felt on the edge of losing things much more in the 5, and that made me hesitant compared to how I attacked with the 4. Again, total novice here. I learned so much at those 2 sessions, but I am not winning any races (although I did take autocross in the 4). If I were someone buying the car to frequently track, the 4 would likely be my choice.

 

[bloominguez]

Also thanks yall folks for the input, decided to go with a blackwing with a 6 speed manual. The cruise control should be enough to get me through road trips anyways

Speaking of cruise control... Did Cadillac ever offer adaptive cruise control on the MT cars? (I don't recall that they did, but I've not been paying close attention.)

On my '22 5BW MT I don't have adaptive cruise control. I didn't think about it much at first, but I confess that it does bother me a little now that I have a mere Toyota (at 40% of the price) that does adaptive cruise control very well (and lane centering reasonably well--but still way better than my 5BW).

It's gotten to the point where, when I switch cars, I have to remind myself that the Cadillac doesn't do what the Toyota does. If I don't, I find myself closing in on the car in front of me and being surprised when my 5BW doesn't automatically slow.

It may not seem like much, but adaptive cruise is a very nice feature. I'm surprised how much I like it.



Edit: Just went into build & price. Still looks like we can't have adaptive cruise control with a manual transmission.

Selecting...
Driver Assist Package
Adaptive Cruise Control
Enhanced Automatic Emergency Braking
Reverse Automatic Braking
$900

Resulted in a lot of Changes Required:
Adds
BUCKLE TO DRIVE
REVERSE AUTOMATIC BRAKING
REMOTE START
ADAPTIVE CRUISE CONTROL
ENHANCED AUTOMATIC EMERGENCY BRAKING
ELECTRONIC PRECISION SHIFT
10-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
ALLOY PADDLE SHIFT CONTROLS
2.85 REAR AXLE RATIO
ROTARY INFOTAINMENT CONTROLLER WITH JOG CONTROL
AUTOMATIC VEHICLE HOLD

Removes
3.73 REAR AXLE RATIO
6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION

Price Change
$2,775


Other driver assist options (Super Cruise 2 Package, Enhanced Automatic Emergency Braking) require similar changes.

There appears to be a standalone option for Adaptive Cruise Control, but that just results in all of the same changes above, at the same price (i.e. it's only part of a package).

 

[quikag]

My six-speed manual '24 Acura Integra Type S has adaptive cruise control and it works pretty good. Am also surprised my 5BW six-speed doesn't. That said, I hardly use cruise control when flogging the BW, so not that big of a deal.

So, how the adaptive cruise works on the Acura is when rpms drop down to the point where the car can't comfortably accelerate, it beeps at me and pulls the plug. But, it's like below 25 or 30mph in sixth gear. So, obviously makes perfect sense.

I wish Cadillac would figure out Super Cruise on the manual cars as that is an awesome technology. While they are at it, figure out remote engine start for manual cars too! It's not rocket science.

 

[obeykube]

I think the thread just reflects what the individual wants in a car For 5BW vs 4BW, M6 vs A10, its all preference based on what you want. When I talk about my car choice (4BW 6MT) I use a microwaved steak vs a pan seared steak example. Sure, the microwave is cheaper, faster to heat the steak up, more compact, etc. But... we all want the pan seared steak. Sure, for the money, the 4BW M6 is not the fastest in a straight line per dollar, or the fastest around the track per dollar, but its the closest thing for sale that fits the bill "for me". Engaging, fun, unique, capable, faster than you ever really need, and luxurious. I was a pure audi guy before this car, a driving a quattro s4 with 600hp made you feel like physics didn't apply to you, but the "automatic" feeling of the car doing everything for me wore off. Not saying one is better than the other, it's all just preference.

 

[Roadhawk]

My track experience is limited to my (2) Spring Mountain visits (one for each car). As a novice, I will say I was more comfortable tracking the 4 than the 5. I felt on the edge of losing things much more in the 5, and that made me hesitant compared to how I attacked with the 4. Again, total novice here. I learned so much at those 2 sessions, but I am not winning any races (although I did take autocross in the 4). If I were someone buying the car to frequently track, the 4 would likely be my choice.

I have to say - being put in a group with 5 BW drivers at Spring Mountain (that I later found out were track guys and I was a novice) - I couldn't even begin to keep with their pace. They just could out accelerate me on the straights....and when I tried to push it I made mistakes in the corners. Of course much of the time I was just trying to absorb the lessons of what I should be doing (so much that at times I forgot to shift).. I wish I hadn't gotten ill (COVID....) and miss the 2nd half of day 2 - I was getting better (she turned me into a newt!....lol)...and while I had the best time (in my group of 6 or 7) in autocross I thought I could probably have improved there as well and maybe could have taken the tittle. No way on the track though....much to still learn...

 

[Roadhawk]

I think the thread just reflects what the individual wants in a car For 5BW vs 4BW, M6 vs A10, its all preference based on what you want. When I talk about my car choice (4BW 6MT) I use a microwaved steak vs a pan seared steak example. Sure, the microwave is cheaper, faster to heat the steak up, more compact, etc. But... we all want the pan seared steak. Sure, for the money, the 4BW M6 is not the fastest in a straight line per dollar, or the fastest around the track per dollar, but its the closest thing for sale that fits the bill "for me". Engaging, fun, unique, capable, faster than you ever really need, and luxurious. I was a pure audi guy before this car, a driving a quattro s4 with 600hp made you feel like physics didn't apply to you, but the "automatic" feeling of the car doing everything for me wore off. Not saying one is better than the other, it's all just preference.

I so miss my B5 S4....I felt I could do no wrong (accept a few times I plowed ahead with understeer going too fast into a corner...once going slightly airborne on a bridge with a curve where i thought I might fly off into the Potomac....of course on landing I did what I had to do....push the accelerator down harder! lol It was a MT BTW...(keeping this on topic)

 

[dinkman]

I may have felt this way at one time but not so sure anymore (unless maybe I wanted to heavily mod it or if i lived in a snow heavy area). But this review has certainly made me question my RS3 love....

You can’t live life off other peoples YouTube reviews. Yes it understeers a bit but it’s probably one of the best cars Audi has ever made

 

[Roadhawk]

You can’t live life off other peoples YouTube reviews. Yes it understeers a bit but it’s probably one of the best cars Audi has ever made

Yup - no doubt....if only had MT I probably would be driving one now...

 

[rubberduck]

Yup - no doubt....if only had MT I probably would be driving one now...

If the BW was AT, me too. MB or Audi is what normally drive. I know you prefer smaller cars, and I did for a long time. But the big cars have been my thing for the past few years. S580 or RS7 was what I was thinking. The 5BW gives me the best of both worlds. Luxury cruiser and fighting sword.

 

[MookdocOE]

Damn't I need to be like Tall Steve and have both! Well at least he had both at one time and I will never be like Tall Steve? This sucks..................

 

[Finally-a-V]

I couldn't even begin to keep with their pace. They just could out accelerate me on the straights....and when I tried to push it I made mistakes in the corners.

Same for me in a 4. I was left in the dust on straights, but could make up some time in the twistes. The harder I pushed, the worse I got, so I just concentrated on my lines and did better overall.

 

[Roadhawk]

Same for me in a 4. I was left in the dust on straights, but could make up some time in the twistes. The harder I pushed, the worse I got, so I just concentrated on my lines and did better overall.

After trying to drive fast to keep (catch) up with the (race team) 5 BW drivers.....and failing...I got very frustrated. I then tried to concentrate purely on technique and not worry so much about speed (per se)....and (like you) of course every lap was getting better. Shame I missed the last session(s)? as I had gained confidence and was starting to push it much harder (and brake later and harder). I probably did best in the chicane where i didn't have to brake at all...