Retrofit carbon ceramic brakes?

[rubberduck]

After watching the first 30 seconds of the VBOX video, turned me off. I would much rather prefer just sticking a SD card into the dashboard and be done. I should've checked the Performance Data Recorder box. $1600 bucks doesn't seem like too much now, a year later.
******Just dawned on me.....today is my 5BW's 1st birthday !!!!!

Well you didn’t so move on. The only options you have at this point are: 1) buy another car, 2) aftermarket, 3) do nothing. If you chose 3) no sense dwelling on that decision.

 

[bloominguez]

******Just dawned on me.....today is my 5BW's 1st birthday !!!!!

Define "birthday". When it was built, or when you got it? Because those days can be many months apart...

 

[jbawden]

Define "birthday". When it was built, or when you got it? Because those days can be many months apart...

Too soon bro...#scarredbygoats

 

[Head Hunter]

I wanted them for a few reasons, but the $9k turned me off. I didn't stretch to get into the car, but it squashed the previous most expensive car I've ever bought by 10's of ,1,000's of $$, so I got skurd. Looking back I wish I would have just done it. Anyone on the fence sitting in front of the GM workbench, check that box!

I almost bought a CF1/CF2 that didn’t have them for some reason, then figured out you couldn’t do CCB after so opted to pass on the appearance for the brakes and just get the CF aftermarket.

 

[99sport]

Also, the roads in my area are not great; I think reducing the unsprung weight as much as possible will improve the ride quality (in addition to the performance and braking itself).

I ordered the CCB for those reasons. After receiving the car, the ride and handling are both so good I'm not sure that the incremental difference is worth it. I guarantee you the handling without them will be far more than you can use on the street unless you're willing to risk prison time. Do you think your current ride is bad? My car, In tour mode (with ccb) is incredible - you feel large bumps, but it's not harsh at all.

Since buying the car I have read that ccb pads and rotors last about 16 hours of hard track time. My buddies will rent out the track for a whole day so my typical track time is 8 hours per track day (with multiple tanks of gas from the overpriced pumps at the track). Replacing a set of rotors and pads is a lot more than the $9k initial purchase price, so I'm not sure if I want to consume $5K worth of brakes whenever I do a track day - that would be enough to convince me to bring a different (slower) car to the track

If they ever release the Magnesium wheels that will be an easier and cheaper route lower unsprung weight

 

[FLYARMY]

Your right. Car was built in March and didn't get delivered to me until June 6th. When it left the dealership garage it was like it was coming out of the "birth canal". *** Notice I didn't say VAGINA. LOL !

 

[BlueBird]

Getting lighter weight forged wheels would help with ride quality, though you won’t shed as much weight as a full CCB set and lightweight wheels. If the car wasn’t brake by wire, you could get away with the swap. But I imagine there’s probably some software related programming for the entire braking system that we aren’t really privy to.

I haven't weighed the stock wheels, but the factory wheels are already forged. There may be lighter forged options out there, but it may not be enough difference to make the cost worthwhile. The stock wheels are make by Super Alloy Industries in Taiwan, a company that is an OEM manufacturer for forged wheels on GM, Mopar, and other Mfg's products (Hellcats, Camaros, etc.).

 

[almazing]

I haven't weighed the stock wheels, but the factory wheels are already forged. There may be lighter forged options out there, but it may not be enough difference to make the cost worthwhile. The stock wheels are make by Super Alloy Industries in Taiwan, a company that is an OEM manufacturer for forged wheels on GM, Mopar, and other Mfg's products (Hellcats, Camaros, etc.).

That's true. At most, one may lose 3-5 lbs per corner, which may not be worth the expense of paying ~$800-1200 per individual forged lightweight wheel for the sole purpose of just weight reduction. Do the Girodisc 2 piece rotors for the gen 3 CTS-V fit on the 5BW? That's probably 5 lbs per corner saved, and costs much, much less than buying lightweight forged wheels.

Personally, I'd rather have slotted iron rotors than CCBs, but that's because I track my vehicles. Iron brakes have a much larger pad selection and doesn't cost 20-25% the value of the vehicle to replace. CCBs offer great performance but selection of pads are extremely limited. The pad selection limitation may make CCBs inferior on track, even. It makes a ton of sense for cars that will never see the track because they will never get driven hard enough for wear and tear to ever be an issue. They'll last the life of the car as a daily driver. On track, they'll last last roughly as long as an iron brake setup.

 

[strohw]

It makes a ton of sense for cars that will never see the track because they will never get driven hard enough for wear and tear to ever be an issue. They'll last the life of the car as a daily driver.

Does it? You'd have to have well over 200,000 miles on the car to even get close to break even from standard rotor/pad replacements compared to CCB. Logically at their current prices, they make no financial sense. It's just an option you get because you want it.

 

[almazing]

Does it? You'd have to have well over 200,000 miles on the car to even get close to break even from standard rotor/pad replacements compared to CCB. Logically at their current prices, they make no financial sense. It's just an option you get because you want it.

I'm just saying that CCBs are a good option for people who never, ever want to worry or even think about brakes for as long as they own the car, so long as it never sees the track. And even then, it only makes sense as a factory installed option because they're cheaper than piecing everything together yourself. In the end, it does boil down to whether or not you want it. It's not like iron brakes need frequent servicing either.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

I ordered the CCB for those reasons. After receiving the car, the ride and handling are both so good I'm not sure that the incremental difference is worth it. I guarantee you the handling without them will be far more than you can use on the street unless you're willing to risk prison time. Do you think your current ride is bad? My car, In tour mode (with ccb) is incredible - you feel large bumps, but it's not harsh at all.

Since buying the car I have read that ccb pads and rotors last about 16 hours of hard track time. My buddies will rent out the track for a whole day so my typical track time is 8 hours per track day (with multiple tanks of gas from the overpriced pumps at the track). Replacing a set of rotors and pads is a lot more than the $9k initial purchase price, so I'm not sure if I want to consume $5K worth of brakes whenever I do a track day - that would be enough to convince me to bring a different (slower) car to the track

If they ever release the Magnesium wheels that will be an easier and cheaper route lower unsprung weight

You aren’t running your car for 8 hours per day.

Even with an open track format, I’d be shocked if you ran more than 120 minutes per day.

 

[99sport]

You aren’t running your car for 8 hours per day.

Even with an open track format, I’d be shocked if you ran more than 120 minutes per day.

With all due respect - as I realize you probably have more track time on your 5 than anyone else on the forum, I did WAY more than 2 hours of track time per event with those guys.

Track was open for 9 hours and I tired to get every minute I could. This was back when I was running 4 autocross events a month (including every national event within a couple hundred miles) and would do just about anything for seat time.

By the end of the day I would often be the only one on the track as everyone was worn out. I probably did 6 hours in my car and 1 hour riding/driving friends cars. I was in my late 20s so I had a lot more stamina then than I do in my 40s so it's doubtful I'd last that long in the Blackwing - but on the flip side the Blacking is certainly a more comfortable ride than an S2000 with autocross prepped suspension (but then again, maybe a track focused car with 1/3 the power is easier to manage than a giant sedan with 700 hp - I need to get to Spring Mountain to find out!)

 

[MatthewAMEL]

With all due respect - as I realize you probably have more track time on your 5 than anyone else on the forum, I did WAY more than 2 hours of track time per event with those guys.

Track was open for 9 hours and I tired to get every minute I could. This was back when I was running 4 autocross events a month (including every national event within a couple hundred miles) and would do just about anything for seat time.

By the end of the day I would often be the only one on the track as everyone was worn out. I probably did 6 hours in my car and 1 hour riding/driving friends cars. I was in my late 20s so I had a lot more stamina then than I do in my 40s so it's doubtful I'd last that long in the Blackwing - but on the flip side the Blacking is certainly a more comfortable ride than an S2000 with autocross prepped suspension (but then again, maybe a track focused car with 1/3 the power is easier to manage than a giant sedan with 700 hp - I need to get to Spring Mountain to find out!)

Well then, I stand corrected. Nice to know the Blackwings can take that kind of use.

 

[sleepys4]

Bringing this back from the dead. It can be done and it isn't that difficult now knowing everything involved.

 

[DCV]

So lay it out for us then

 

[Mutz]

I'm curious about swapping my CCBs for steel rotors. Does the programming really make that much of a difference?

 

[sleepys4]

I'm curious about swapping my CCBs for steel rotors. Does the programming really make that much of a difference?

Yes. Front is simple just would need iron discs, still not sure I have seen any aftermarket ones available marketed as exact fit. I do believe some of the Zl1 aftermarket disc will work. pads for the front straight forward exact same size.

The rear is where things get interesting. For starters the knuckle is different between the two. They use different size parking brake calipers that have a wider opening allowing for the 6mm difference in width between the rotors. They also have a different calipers that are slightly larger on the CCBs. I'm not certain of the pad size required but I'm going to give ken a buzz and that should be easily sorted. Also you would need to find a rear iron rotor 374-370 x 34mm. I believe the c8 z06 front disc would fit the bill.

lastly Its just reprogramming the brake control module. I think its k160 in the module list.

The CCB setup has brake pad sensors on all 4 corners. Both models are prewired for the sensors.

In summation, Its a lot easier going to irons from CCBS. After you find a iron rotor that will fit.
Going from iron to CCBS requires rotors, pads, two new rear knuckles, new rear calipers, and rear parking brakes.

Side note if anyone is ever in a pinch for rear iron rotors Camaro zl1 rears will fit the iron brake setup.

 

[Super Saloon]

Does the difference in unsprung weight impact the mag ride that significantly and at what weight per corner would it start making a difference? I just purchased lighter wheels for my BW, about 6lbs per corner, and now I’m wondering if that will negatively impact the mag ride.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Yes. Front is simple just would need iron discs, still not sure I have seen any aftermarket ones available marketed as exact fit. I do believe some of the Zl1 aftermarket disc will work. pads for the front straight forward exact same size.

The rear is where things get interesting. For starters the knuckle is different between the two. They use different size parking brake calipers that have a wider opening allowing for the 6mm difference in width between the rotors. They also have a different calipers that are slightly larger on the CCBs. I'm not certain of the pad size required but I'm going to give ken a buzz and that should be easily sorted. Also you would need to find a rear iron rotor 374-370 x 34mm. I believe the c8 z06 front disc would fit the bill.

lastly Its just reprogramming the brake control module. I think its k160 in the module list.

The CCB setup has brake pad sensors on all 4 corners. Both models are prewired for the sensors.

In summation, Its a lot easier going to irons from CCBS. After you find a iron rotor that will fit.
Going from iron to CCBS requires rotors, pads, two new rear knuckles, new rear calipers, and rear parking brakes.

Side note if anyone is ever in a pinch for rear iron rotors Camaro zl1 rears will fit the iron brake setup.

CCB to iron is not a simple swap. Sure, the physical items are easy, but the programming involves FAR more than the brake module. You also have to reprogram the MRC. While HP Tuners cracked the ECU, the MRC is still not available for tuning. DSC Sport does have a module for C8/MRC4, but they haven’t had any Blackwing installs that they know of.