Manual questions

[Dcrets]

First, I will probably be teaching a friend how to drive a manual. It's been my experience that killing the engine by popping the clutch is an inevitable part of the learning experience for a manual rookie. I think the owners manual says this is a bad thing. Is a time or two really going to do any harm?

Second question, back in the day it was normal to start a car with a dead battery by popping the clutch in second gear after getting a good push. Any issues doing this with our BW manuals?
Tia

 

[Deneed4spd]

When I was at spring mountain, they were beating the hell out of the manual CT5 BWs for 8000 miles of hard shifts and launched. Couple stalls isn’t going to do a thing.

If your car battery dies on a car with this much tech, no push on 2nd gear is going to start it.

 

[rubberduck]

Is a time or two really going to do any harm?

Tia

You have a lot of confidence in your friend. Modern cars will not push start with a dead battery because they need power to the ECU.

 

[Matt27]

I stalled like 5-6 times in quick succession, in a parking lot. It was my first manual car and first time driving a stick.

No issues and I'll have my wife learn on it this summer too.

 

[CBH]

Just returned from teaching my daughter. There will definitely be stalls.......

This was our second outing. It went well enough that we ventured out of the parking lot and onto the street. I was so proud of her !!

 

[Neveready]

I suppose it depends on the skill level of this person you are teaching. If it's a person who's an experienced driver or has a lot of self control then they should be fine. If this person is learning to drive, or has never driven a high horsepower car then I'd be concerned.

I could see a nervous nelly stabbing the throttle by accident. Maybe use the valet mode as I understand it will limit the performance somewhat.

Put the mode on snow/ice that should help.

 

[jbawden]

My older daughter is car crazy, so I'm not teaching her how to drive a manual for the time being. We already had an "incident" with my Durango when she was 15, so this strategy is a security device My neighbor offered his '94 Civic for when the time comes. It's a very easy manual to learn on.

 

[bloominguez]

I've taught multiple friends, daughters, and an ex-wife, on both motorcycles and cars. Couple stalls shouldn't hurt.

Things I've learned...

Practice "clutch and brake" before you start, with the car NOT running. Just to get the muscle memory for finding those pedals (or levers, on a bike) quickly. Makes the learner comfortable in how to abort safely at any time.

Start in an empty parking lot with a very slight downhill slope, makes the first lessons a little easier.

On a car with any kind of decent power, show how you can start just by releasing the clutch slowly, no gas involved. Make them do it. This will really help get the feel for the clutch more quickly, really helped when teaching one of my daughters. Super easy on a car with a lot of power like, say, a BW.

The previous paragraph is complicated by the auto blip / anti stall feature that some cars have. In which the car will give itself more gas if it thinks it's going to stall. One example that I'm familiar with:

Manual Transmission Tips, Tricks, & Secrets

Hey everyone! We asked our buddy Scott who has been driving around a manual Badlands for 7 months help break down some of his top tips, tricks and secrets of the manual transmission on the Bronco! H

thebronconation.com

See 1:40 of this video:

Unexpected side benefit on a new car with ASS (auto stop start): If you stall the car when you lift off the clutch pedal, it will start right back up when you you press the clutch back in. Not the case with our BWs, which don't have ASS, but surprisingly helpful for a new driver who needs to get the car restarted quickly after they stall it when driving on the road.
See 4:35 of the same video above:

 

[bloominguez]

New cars also have the "hill hold" feature, another way of cheating. One less thing for a new driver to worry about. Worth disabling after the new driver has achieved some level of mastery, to show that they can operate without it (don't rely on it).

Happy that my daughter learned on my old '95 Integra without any of those features, proud to say that she's an excellent manual transmission driver now.

 

[Exia]

Stalling the BW won't harm anything, a few times is completely fine.

Now if it was stalled 1000x is a different story.

Modern manuals, especially those found in American performance cars, are very good for teaching purposes. They have good feel, bite and power to prevent stalling as long as you trust they won't rev the crap out of it while they're on the clutch.

 

[rubberduck]

One thing I’ve noticed over the years is some new drivers don’t remove their foot off the clutch pedal when finishing their shifting. Then they wonder why their clutch is toast after 10k miles. It’s not a foot rest!

 

[Head Hunter]

One thing I’ve noticed over the years is some new drivers don’t remove their foot off the clutch pedal when finishing their shifting. Then they wonder why their clutch is toast after 10k miles. It’s not a foot rest!

This - 100%

 

[T.O.Blackwing]

You have a lot of confidence in your friend. Modern cars will not push start with a dead battery because they need power to the ECU.

What about a battery that has a bit of juice but not enough to turn over the engine?
I’ve push started my old 93 MR2 when the battery was near but not quite dead.

 

[dribs15]

What about a battery that has a bit of juice but not enough to turn over the engine?
I’ve push started my old 93 MR2 when the battery was near but not quite dead.

 

[hawgs911]

Just make sure you teach him right...

 

[travysh]

New cars also have the "hill hold" feature, another way of cheating. One less thing for a new driver to worry about. Worth disabling after the new driver has achieved some level of mastery, to show that they can operate without it (don't rely on it).

Back in my day, we had manual parking brakes to help us out!

This is the first manual I've had with hill hold. If anything, learning to trust it has been its own challenge. I've stalled my car twice now, both cases almost exclusively because I wasn't using hill hold. Some of the Seattle hills are no joke for attempting a hill start with no hill hold or parking brake

 

[bloominguez]

Back in my day, we had manual parking brakes to help us out!

This is the first manual I've had with hill hold. If anything, learning to trust it has been its own challenge. I've stalled my car twice now, both cases almost exclusively because I wasn't using hill hold. Some of the Seattle hills are no joke for attempting a hill start with no hill hold or parking brake

Yea, that's how I grew up as well.

I've found that that the hill hold on my 5BW isn't quite as consistent as I thought it would be (and not as consistent as multiple other vehicles I've owned), seems like you have to press the brake with some significant pressure for the car to know you want it to engage. If you just lightly press the brake (likely if going uphill) it won't necessarily engage. Not a big deal, I don't feel I need it. Almost never needed the handbrake in the past, either.

 

[CBH]

I've seen hill lock be inconsistent too. I've never had a problem starting on hills - had a fairly steep one in my daily commute before - so when hill lock does kick in it feels weird. This car has plenty of torque to allow you to start engaging the clutch enough to stop a backwards slide until you can reach the throttle.

But it would be nice to know how Hill Lock is supposed to work so you could reliably engage it when you want to.

 

[Neveready]

Same here on the hill hold, I usually have challenges with it unlocking which requires me to slow down the clutch release and give it more gas. I have this feature on my 2010 Cayman and it's the same story, only that car has an ebrake but you can't turn off hill hold (that I know of). Is what it is.

 

[Dcrets]

I've taught multiple friends, daughters, and an ex-wife, on both motorcycles and cars. Couple stalls shouldn't hurt.

Things I've learned...

Practice "clutch and brake" before you start, with the car NOT running. Just to get the muscle memory for finding those pedals (or levers, on a bike) quickly. Makes the learner comfortable in how to abort safely at any time.

Start in an empty parking lot with a very slight downhill slope, makes the first lessons a little easier.

On a car with any kind of decent power, show how you can start just by releasing the clutch slowly, no gas involved. Make them do it. This will really help get the feel for the clutch more quickly, really helped when teaching one of my daughters. Super easy on a car with a lot of power like, say, a BW.

The previous paragraph is complicated by the auto blip / anti stall feature that some cars have. In which the car will give itself more gas if it thinks it's going to stall. One example that I'm familiar with:

Manual Transmission Tips, Tricks, & Secrets

Hey everyone! We asked our buddy Scott who has been driving around a manual Badlands for 7 months help break down some of his top tips, tricks and secrets of the manual transmission on the Bronco! H

thebronconation.com

See 1:40 of this video:

Unexpected side benefit on a new car with ASS (auto stop start): If you stall the car when you lift off the clutch pedal, it will start right back up when you you press the clutch back in. Not the case with our BWs, which don't have ASS, but surprisingly helpful for a new driver who needs to get the car restarted quickly after they stall it when driving on the road.
See 4:35 of the same video above:

Excellent advice. The engine off thing makes a lot of sense. Thanks all for the great suggestions.
Times have changed. I learned to drive in a 1963 VW. With a dead battery I could sit in the drivers seat, open the door, push a few times with just left leg, pop the clutch and go.