CT4 on the Chopping Block?

[PL69]

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I believe that the CT4-V comes with the awesome Magnaride and the Camaro does not. To me, that alone is worth the price difference, even before I consider the coffin-like interior styling of the kind of awkward-looking Chevy.

Camaro 1LE and regular ZL1 come with Mag-Ride gen 3.

I have many friends tracking Camaro's and have ridden in them, they are very very impressive, with a few small mods I would put them on par with a GT4 as far as being fast on a track, they are that good.

I also agree, to me it's not even worth comparing because personaly can't cope with the Camaro's poor visibility and cavernous feeling. I know I could probably get used to it but having two children, spending 15-20k more for the 4 Blackwing was a no-brainer for me.

 

[raptor5244]

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I believe that the CT4-V comes with the awesome Magnaride and the Camaro does not. To me, that alone is worth the price difference, even before I consider the coffin-like interior styling of the kind of awkward-looking Chevy.

Mag-ride is included with the 1LE package and available as a standalone option on the SS Camaros. The Mag-ride Gen4 in the 4BW is noticeably improved especially in Tour Mode when you want to soften things up.

I hear you regarding the styling, it is subjective of course and the poor visibility is a big reason for the lack of sales but it is hard to deny the value you get for the money. The 4BW fixes a lot of these issues and it still doesn't sell well and depreciates like crazy.

 

[savethemanual]

The SS 1LE includes HUD, Recaro bucket seats with heat and ventilation, E-diff, 6 piston Brembos, rear view mirror camera, 20" wheels, dual mode exhaust, drive modes, hood wrap, Tremec TR6060 and of course a LT1 V8.

Also not to beat a dead horse but apart from the HUD none of those actually sound like an upgrade over anything on the blackwing. Also unless something changed in 24 the 1ss 1le does not have ventilated reacaros.

Also I like how you ignore the options the 1ss does not have compared to the base blackwing.

A biggie is blind spot and rear cross traffic alert, parking sensors.(this is an absolute must have on the Camaro especially)

No memory seats too. No full automatic climate control. No home link or auto dimming mirrors. No auto wipers, no full digital gauge cluster, no wireless CarPlay, a pretty mid stereo system.

The correct comparison is to a 2ss 1le and at 10k difference your bad value comparison is no longer true. I actually think the 2ss 1le is a 50k car and should not be any more.

 

[Roadhawk]

I agree with all the Camaro comments. As great of a car as it is - and I respect it...I could never own one due to its size and poor outward visibility. All cars are overpriced now IMO.

My dad had a 78 Camaro rally sport MT which was a hoot to drive. I have a few fun stories talking myself out of tickets with that one....it was a real cop magnet. I so hated when they discontinued the old Camaro...but they did good with the new one (for the most part)

 

[raptor5244]

Also not to beat a dead horse but apart from the HUD none of those actually sound like an upgrade over anything on the blackwing. Also unless something changed in 24 the 1ss 1le does not have ventilated reacaros.

Also I like how you ignore the options the 1ss does not have compared to the base blackwing.

A biggie is blind spot and rear cross traffic alert, parking sensors.(this is an absolute must have on the Camaro especially)

No memory seats too. No full automatic climate control. No home link or auto dimming mirrors. No auto wipers, no full digital gauge cluster, no wireless CarPlay, a pretty mid stereo system.

The correct comparison is to a 2ss 1le and at 10k difference your bad value comparison is no longer true. I actually think the 2ss 1le is a 50k car and should not be any more.

Agreed, the 2SS 1LE is a better comparison from a features perspective but you have to spend about $70k on a 4BW to get equivalent seats with ventilation and the HUD. The 2SS Camaros also include the rear view mirror camera to help with the terrible rear visibility.

All of this is pointless anyway as the Camaro is dead and this thread is about speculation that the 4BW may be killed off as well.

GM is so screwed up right now the Silverado is the only thing keeping them in business.

 

[raptor5244]

I agree with all the Camaro comments. As great of a car as it is - and I respect it...I could never own one due to its size and poor outward visibility. All cars are overpriced now IMO.

My dad had a 78 Camaro rally sport MT which was a hoot to drive. I have a few fun stories talking myself out of tickets with that one....it was a real cop magnet. I so hated when they discontinued the old Camaro...but they did good with the new one (for the most part)

That is one of the main reasons I sold my ZL1 for the 4BW. It is an unbelievable performance car for the money but the seating position and poor visibility take a lot away from the driving experience. However, they do hold their value a lot better than the Cadillacs.

 

[poor-sha]

I tried last year to order an SS 1LE, all the dealers had lists of folks waiting for an 1LE allocation. For a mostly track car that I could still live with on the street it was ~$15K more to go 4BW over SS 1LE.

 

[division]

My dad had a 78 Camaro rally sport MT which was a hoot to drive.

It didn't meet its demise at the hands of Lincoln High, did it?

 

[PL69]

That is one of the main reasons I sold my ZL1 for the 4BW. It is an unbelievable performance car for the money but the seating position and poor visibility take a lot away from the driving experience. However, they do hold their value a lot better than the Cadillacs.

Because they are the cheapest way to access this kind of performance. A true bargain when a Mustang equivalent is almost 100k CAD around here...

As far as killing the 4 Blackwing, it's a tuff question. If dealers would order interesting builds instead of a shit load of auto white/silver seat and sunroof ones..

 

[Roadhawk]

It didn't meet its demise at the hands of Lincoln High, did it?

Not that one...ours was red and black - very sharp looking.

 

[raptor5244]

I tried last year to order an SS 1LE, all the dealers had lists of folks waiting for an 1LE allocation. For a mostly track car that I could still live with on the street it was ~$15K more to go 4BW over SS 1LE.

Yep. I have owned both and the 4BW is definitely an easier car to live with but they drive pretty similar. The 4BW is a bit more refined, quieter, running on those PS4S 18"s and mated to a TT V6. The Camaro felt more visceral, more vibration, sounded better, and handled a little better as it is a little lighter but the 4BW feels pretty nimble for its weight.

 

[raptor5244]

Because they are the cheapest way to access this kind of performance. A true bargain when a Mustang equivalent is almost 100k CAD around here...

As far as killing the 4 Blackwing, it's a tuff question. If dealers would order interesting builds instead of a shit load of auto white/silver seat and sunroof ones..

Totally agree. I had a couple dealers take my build order but they never did anything with it. Every time they would get an allocation they would skip me and order a loaded up 4BW with a A10 for $75k and then it would sit until they had to lose money on it to move it. They should order the CT4s and CT4Vs like that, not the enthusiast Blackwing model. Most people buying Blackwings know what they are buying and want their specific build, especially since this was touted as a low production run.

I eventually found one in pretty much base trim with and M6 that was close enough but I had to settle which I don't think you should have to do when spending this kind of money.

 

[PL69]

Totally agree. I had a couple dealers take my build order but they never did anything with it. Every time they would get an allocation they would skip me and order a loaded up 4BW with a A10 for $75k and then it would sit until they had to lose money on it to move it. They should order the CT4s and CT4Vs like that, not the enthusiast Blackwing model. Most people buying Blackwings know what they are buying and want their specific build, especially since this was touted as a low production run.

I eventually found one in pretty much base trim with and M6 that was close enough but I had to settle which I don't think you should have to do when spending this kind of money.

Yep I quickly realized caddy dealers are really not used to selling cars like that, ordering a individual paint M3 to my spec is a breeze vs this funky rodeo. They even managed to screw up my 4BW order 1st ordered the wrong seats and had a close call to make the change and omitted the tech package when they re-submited

 

[savethemanual]

Yep I quickly realized caddy dealers are really not used to selling cars like that, ordering an individual paint M3 to my spec is a breeze vs this funky rodeo. They even managed to screw up my 4BW order 1st ordered the wrong seats and had a close call to make the change and omitted the tech package when they re-submited

Stories like this make me really thankful for my dealer. Cadillac of south San Francisco.
Ordered exactly to spec, waited 3 months and paid nothing over msrp.

Experience was as good/better than my wife and her rs3 order.

 

[JKM]

Yep I quickly realized caddy dealers are really not used to selling cars like that, ordering a individual paint M3 to my spec is a breeze vs this funky rodeo. They even managed to screw up my 4BW order 1st ordered the wrong seats and had a close call to make the change and omitted the tech package when they re-submited

Similar experience. I gave the dealer my '23 specs ~6 months ago when the salesperson called out of the blue to let me know they received the allocation and submitted it as a '24. I was a little upset they didn't confirm with me first before submitting the order in case I wanted to change anything with the new colours etc. Car shows up and I realized they didn't spec it with the tech package.

Don't get me started on how sh*tty the paint is. I've never owned a higher end German vehicle, so can only imagine the frustration of someone that's used to a Porsche or BMW sales experience when they walk into the Caddy dealer. Not why I bought it though. I'm sure all frustrations will disappear when I start driving it in the spring.

 

[PL69]

Similar experience. I gave the dealer my '23 specs ~6 months ago when the salesperson called out of the blue to let me know they received the allocation and submitted it as a '24. I was a little upset they didn't confirm with me first before submitting the order in case I wanted to change anything with the new colours etc. Car shows up and I realized they didn't spec it with the tech package.

Don't get me started on how sh*tty the paint is. I've never owned a higher end German vehicle, so can only imagine the frustration of someone that's used to a Porsche or BMW sales experience when they walk into the Caddy dealer. Not why I bought it though. I'm sure all frustrations will disappear when I start driving it in the spring.

You should of seen the black paint on the Auto I bought of the showroom floor last June, full of buffer marks on the hood, I've never seen anything like like it, I hope the 2024 won't have been retouched by some Newby like the 2023..

 

[raptor5244]

You should of seen the black paint on the Auto I bought of the showroom floor last June, full of buffer marks on the hood, I've never seen anything like like it, I hope the 2024 won't have been retouched by some Newby like the 2023..

I have Black Raven as well. Dealer had a paint correction and ceramic coat done, not because they wanted to, but because they had to.

 

[Champale]

Same - my 2024 5BW in Black Raven came off the delivery truck looking like a madman holding sandpaper and razor blades had jumped all over it. Dealership allowed me to have my usual detailer/PPF guy do a paint correction on it and they footed the bill. Very pleased with them doing that! In hindsight, I would have gone with white paint.