Anyone want a $94k 4BW?

[strohw]

And you can't tell me that there is a 4 owner on this forum that doesn't secretly covet the absolute bonkers power of the 5. I know I do.

I'm sure there are quite a few. I know multiple people have posted about having faster cars. I came from 630whp AWD on E30 tune. It's just too much, unusable most of the time and the temptation to use it will get you into trouble. Speed like that works much better on a motorcycle. Ya, their less safe in general but it's a lot easier to get away with using that power than in a car.

 

[RDATLTE]

But Sticker Boy didn't pay 5 money for his 4.

And you can't tell me that there is a 4 owner on this forum that doesn't secretly covet the absolute bonkers power of the 5. I know I do.

Yeah, they are different cars and I love my 4 but...I would have gotten a 5 if I could have afforded it. Buying a 4 for 5 money is just silly.

I admit to initially wanting his & hers LT4s then, they released the pricing and we happily settled for the 4. I'm a top of the line kind of guy though so, I couldn't settle for the base model of anything.

 

[malakas]

IDK. I came from a BMW M240I most recently but also had CTS-V wagons and a GT350 before as well as less powerful cars like the FD RX7 and the S2000. One can appreciate a range of what makes cars fun and it's not all brute force. There comes a point where more power for street use doesn't mean better. In the case of the CTS-V I'd say it already had more power than it could put down so a 50 Hp drop might have actually made that car better everywhere except for a track. I'm afraid the 5BW might be the same but I'm not out of break in yet to judge that. I seriously considered the 4BW because I think around 450 hp is optimal for street use. That car however was too small for family use, which is why the m240I was replaced to begin with.

 

[668LT4]

I owned a 4 Blackwing 6MT. Awesome car. And I agree, in no way inferior to a 5.

I now own the 6MT 5, and could never go back. It's not too much power for the street. It's power that is always on tap, and you just need to be mindful of what awaits as the pedal is depressed. Any gear, any RPM. And the sound is always intoxicating. Most fun to drive car I have ever owned, and that is why I bought it.

 

[Matt27]

But Sticker Boy didn't pay 5 money for his 4.

And you can't tell me that there is a 4 owner on this forum that doesn't secretly covet the absolute bonkers power of the 5. I know I do.

Yeah, they are different cars and I love my 4 but...I would have gotten a 5 if I could have afforded it. Buying a 4 for 5 money is just silly.

Yeah, I've resolved to buy a pre-owned garage queen 5 (I'm sure there are many out there) in like ~6 years or so. I will do a @Tall Steve and have both in my garage.

 

[rubberduck]

It’s not too much power, it’s just right.

 

[poor-sha]

Both are great cars and I still pine to get a 4BW 6MT to go with my 5BW 6MT. I've had both on track and the 5BW is definitely faster on track, but the longer wheelbase does make it feel not quite as nimble. The 4BW seems to really lack guts in 5th gear on the big straights and I do think an additional ~50 HP would be perfect. It's also a lot cheaper on consumables than the 5BW with the CCBs.

I think the 5BW is clearly the better road car with the back seat the actually fits adults and the always available torque that makes it a ton of fun to row your own gears without going to jail speeds. The only downside I've found is that it's a little bigger to park.

 

[raptor5244]

I'm sure there are quite a few. I know multiple people have posted about having faster cars. I came from 630whp AWD on E30 tune. It's just too much, unusable most of the time and the temptation to use it will get you into trouble. Speed like that works much better on a motorcycle. Ya, their less safe in general but it's a lot easier to get away with using that power than in a car.

I traded a ZL1 for the 4BW. I wanted to experience the LT4 power and it is awesome but most of the time it was just an exercise of restraint. The limits of the car are so high that it felt frustrating to drive it around at 3/10ths all the time. I would do a pull and by the end of the highway on-ramp I would be at 130mph. I also didn't like the tall gearing of the M6 when paired to the LT4, which makes it harder to wind out the gears and listen to the exhaust sing. 60mph in 1st, 84mph in 2nd, 113mph in 3rd is cool and all but I didn't find it as much fun on the street.

The 4BW is feels more nimble and is quick but with its shorter gearing you can wind out the gears a little more. I think the Miata I had is still the most fun on the street if you like to wind out the gears without risking your license.

 

[raptor5244]

IDK. I came from a BMW M240I most recently but also had CTS-V wagons and a GT350 before as well as less powerful cars like the FD RX7 and the S2000. One can appreciate a range of what makes cars fun and it's not all brute force. There comes a point where more power for street use doesn't mean better. In the case of the CTS-V I'd say it already had more power than it could put down so a 50 Hp drop might have actually made that car better everywhere except for a track. I'm afraid the 5BW might be the same but I'm not out of break in yet to judge that. I seriously considered the 4BW because I think around 450 hp is optimal for street use. That car however was too small for family use, which is why the m240I was replaced to begin with.

I found the LT4 over the limit for street enjoyment but as long as you don't keep your foot in it too long you will be fine. The transmission in the 5BW/ZL1 really changes the character of the car. The A10 rips through the shifts so quick, kind of turns the car into a Nissan GTR type of experience. The M6 has really tall gearing so if you like to keep your foot in it and wind out gears then you reach high speeds in each gear. Winding out 2nd take you to 84mph.

Here is a good video of a POV video of a ZL1 to illustrate what I mean. Pretty much same thing in 5BW but with a much nicer interior and better visibility.

 

[rubberduck]

I traded a ZL1 for the 4BW. I wanted the experience the LT4 power and it is awesome but most of the time it was just an exercise of restraint. The limits of the car are so high that it felt frustrating to drive it around at 3/10ths all the time. I would do a pull and by the end of the highway on-ramp I would be at 130mph. I also didn't like the tall gearing of the M6 when paired to the LT4, which makes it harder to wind out the gears and listen to the exhaust sing. 60mph in 1st, 84mph in 2nd, 113mph in 3rd is cool and all but I didn't find it as much fun on the street.

The 4BW is feels more nimble and is quick but with its shorter gearing you can wind out the gears a little more. I think the Miata I had is still the most fun on the street if you like to wind out the gears without risking your license.

Like a lot of things in life frustration is just a mental state that can be mastered. Do you have sex every time you feel the urge? Enjoy the car for what it is. I have a modified Jeep and I don’t get a hard on every time I see a dirt patch on the road.

I have nothing against the 4. In fact, I think it would be a better track car than the 5 for me. But I have the 5 6MT for nostalgic reasons and don’t plan to let go anytime soon.

 

[The Sandman]

I guess it’s not surprising how many threads turn into 4BW vs 5BW.

In my view, the 4BW is a perfect street car… a completely balanced package. The 5BW not so much. I would have taken an AWD 5BW in a heartbeat though.

 

[LF4472]

But Sticker Boy didn't pay 5 money for his 4.

And you can't tell me that there is a 4 owner on this forum that doesn't secretly covet the absolute bonkers power of the 5. I know I do.

Yeah, they are different cars and I love my 4 but...I would have gotten a 5 if I could have afforded it. Buying a 4 for 5 money is just silly.

I don't, as I already have a C7 Z06. And I don't need or really want the bigger car.

 

[raptor5244]

Like a lot of things in life frustration is just a mental state that can be mastered. Do you have sex every time you feel the urge? Enjoy the car for what it is. I have a modified Jeep and I don’t get a hard on every time I see a dirt patch on the road.

I have nothing against the 4. In fact, I think it would be a better track car than the 5 for me. But I have the 5 6MT for nostalgic reasons and don’t plan to let go anytime soon.

I am not really referring to lack of self control like a teenager. What I am saying is that is that the performance limits these cars are so high now, they don’t come alive unless you really push them. I started to grow bored of my ZL1 for this reason. I felt like I was just putting around town in a super car. I think I would have enjoyed it more if I lacked self control.

 

[LF4472]

I don't understand the need to ridicule the prices of particular cars any more than I understand doing the same about someone's transmission choice. People have different priorities and things they value and therefore make their own choices. I would rather have a loaded 4 versus base 5, that doesn't make it a right or wrong decision for anyone else.

The same attitudes are prevalent in the Corvette community, I would hope a smaller community would be better.

 

[raptor5244]

I guess it’s not surprising how many threads turn into 4BW vs 5BW.

In my view, the 4BW is a perfect street car… a completely balanced package. The 5BW not so much. I would have taken an AWD 5BW in a heartbeat though.

For traction reasons? It would sure launch like a beast if it had AWD but I think it wouldn’t be as much fun to drive as RWD setup. It would add even more weight and take away some of the playfulness you get from RWD.

 

[rubberduck]

I am not really referring to lack of self control like a teenager. What I am saying is that is that the performance limits these cars are so high now, they don’t come alive unless you really push them. I started to grow bored of my ZL1 for this reason. I felt like I was just putting around town in a super car. I think I would have enjoyed it more if I lacked self control.

Everyone is different and I don’t mind cruising driving; It is a Cadillac sedan after all. The car has a wonderful ride, surprisingly so given the low profile tires. The longer wheelbase is a plus for that over the 4. The 6-spd is silky smooth (at least mine is). The torque is such that I can drive at low speeds in 3rd and have plenty of acceleration for city maneuvers.

I think you see what I’m doing here. I prefer to focus on all the positive things about the car. The best analogy is dealing with an injury or surgery and pain. The more one thinks about the pain the worse it becomes. I’ve had injuries and out of necessity needed to develop mind strategies to work through them.

Are there negatives with the car? Of course, but if I were to focus on those all the time I’d be unhappy. The biggest negative I have is my local dealer, the only one in town, that I absolutely don’t like having warranty work done with. Their service department incompetence is beyond belief.

 

[almazing]

Local dealer has a $92k Track Edition with the A10 on the way. It's going to sit. The other 2 or 3 4BWs they have are also A10s and are around $70k. They are sitting. They had a manual Track Edition for $85k which sat around for about a month and a half or two months before someone snatched it. It's a bit much, IMO, and kinda defeats the value proposition of the 4BW. It's value exists because of its price, and the $20k worth of stuff that comes in the Track Editions don't really enhance the driving experience. An $85k-90k 4BW is still a $60k car underneath all that glitz and glam, and no amount of coping, self justification, and confirmation bias is going to change that. If the extra $20k+ went in to actually objectively enhancing the performance of the car, then I'd say it would possibly be worth the premium. But it doesn't.

The 4BW I'm speccing out is under $70k(likely more than $70k now that I've been bumped to a 2024 allocation), since I don't need nor want all the driver assist stuff and extra tech. Just the mid-level 'suede' buckets, PDR, and bronze wheels. I wanted the carbon package 1, but I'll skip it due to inevitable constraints. And it'll save me $6k. I'm glad Cadillac made the driver assist stuff optional, because I'm not a fan of them. More or less a stripper/pov spec, but it'll be a fun weekend car and I'll be taking it to the track maybe once a month during the warmer months. I would buy a manual Track Edition for $75k at most. I don't want all that extra crap in there so therefore, I don't want to pay for them.

IMO, the 'Track Editions' would be better served and would probably sell a lot better if they had them on the 5BW. I've noticed that people who gravitate to 5BWs are more likely to option theirs out, while those who can only afford a 4BW are easier on the options. The way I see it, the 4BW is the value oriented sportscar, while the 5BW is the lavish, all out luxury muscle sedan. The 4BW punches above its weight and price because it's so inexpensive compared to its competition. That's THE selling point, along with a manual. While the 5BW isn't really constrained by meeting a price goal. so Cadillac can sell it for much higher, throwing value out the window. There aren't any other manual V8 sedans, so the 5BW is in a class of its own. That is THE selling point of the 5BW. And obviously, there's a huge income difference between the two cars' target audience. Someone who can truly afford a $100k car can likely afford $20k in options. Someone who can only truly afford to buy a $75k car max, isn't likely able to stretch the budget to the mid-80s for the Track Edition.

So I'm quite baffled at the 4BW Track Editions. Who exactly is their target audience? Too expensive for a prospective 4BW buyer cross shopping an M2 or RS3, and too close to a lightly optioned 5BW. Obviously, there are always exceptions to the rule, but they're an overwhelming minority.

 

[raptor5244]

Everyone is different and I don’t mind cruising driving; It is a Cadillac sedan after all. The car has a wonderful ride, surprisingly so given the low profile tires. The longer wheelbase is a plus for that over the 4. The 6-spd is silky smooth (at least mine is). The torque is such that I can drive at low speeds in 3rd and have plenty of acceleration for city maneuvers.

I think you see what I’m doing here. I prefer to focus on all the positive things about the car. The best analogy is dealing with an injury or surgery and pain. The more one thinks about the pain the worse it becomes. I’ve had injuries and out of necessity needed to develop mind strategies to work through them.

Are there negatives with the car? Of course, but if I were to focus on those all the time I’d be unhappy. The biggest negative I have is my local dealer, the only one in town, that I absolutely don’t like having warranty work done with. Their service department incompetence is beyond belief.

I hear ya. There is a lot to love about these cars, just sharing my experiences.

As for warranty work, I am still waiting for my parking sensor retrofit part to come in and I am not going to lie, I hope they don't screw up a simple job like plugging in a module and programming it. The last time I took my Camaro to the local Chevy dealer for its free oil change I drove home and had a puddle of oil on the garage floor. The tech left the old oil filter gasket stuck and just screwed a new oil filter on top causing a leak around the seal. Ever since then I bought some race ramps and change it myself.

 

[dribs15]

Do you have sex every time you feel the urge?

....uhhhh yeah!

... and occasionally it's even with someone else

 

[raptor5244]

Local dealer has a $92k Track Edition with the A10 on the way. It's going to sit. The other 2 or 3 4BWs they have are also A10s and are around $70k. They are sitting. They had a manual Track Edition for $85k which sat around for about a month and a half or two months before someone snatched it. It's a bit much, IMO, and kinda defeats the value proposition of the 4BW. It's value exists because of its price, and the $20k worth of stuff that comes in the Track Editions don't really enhance the driving experience. An $85k-90k 4BW is still a $60k car underneath all that glitz and glam, and no amount of coping, self justification, and confirmation bias is going to change that. If the extra $20k+ went in to actually objectively enhancing the performance of the car, then I'd say it would possibly be worth the premium. But it doesn't.

The 4BW I'm speccing out is under $70k(likely more than $70k now that I've been bumped to a 2024 allocation), since I don't need nor want all the driver assist stuff and extra tech. Just the mid-level 'suede' buckets, PDR, and bronze wheels. I wanted the carbon package 1, but I'll skip it due to inevitable constraints. And it'll save me $6k. I'm glad Cadillac made the driver assist stuff optional, because I'm not a fan of them. More or less a stripper/pov spec, but it'll be a fun weekend car and I'll be taking it to the track maybe once a month during the warmer months. I would buy a manual track edition for $75k at most. I don't want all that extra crap in there so therefore, I don't want to pay for them.

Yeah, I feel the same. The dealers all around me have their 4BW Track Editions and I haven't seen one sell yet. I tend to be a price/performance type of buyer. If you are coming from Camaro or even the C7 Corvette world and the associated pricing I find it hard to justify spending the money. I feel like those highly optioned 4BWs and Track Editions are going to experience huge depreciation since they are not highly sought after as the 5BW and at the end of the day there are no mechanical or performance improvements made to the vehicle.

To me the 4BW is really a 4 door Camaro with a twin turbo V6. I just don't see why a 4BW has to cost so much more than a Camaro 2SS with 1LE package at $52k. Even my 2021 ZL1 was $67k. MSRP, which is still less than most 4BWs.

The Camaros include Recaros, HUD, E-Diff, Mag-ride, 6 piston Brembos, 20" forged wheels with track tires, dual mode exhaust, Tremec TR6060, and you get a V8 option. I think Cadillac would do better if they had bundled packages instead of nickel and diming for all the options. The base price is reasonable for a high performance sports sedan but once you start ticking the boxes it gets expensive real quick. For example, HUD, $725, PDR $1600, you want the same wheels painted black, $600, painted bronze, $1500. You want your car any color other than black or white, $625, you want the same brake calipers painted red, blue or bronze, $600, red seat belts, $400, mid-tier sport bucket seats, $3k, leather seats, $5500, automatic transmission $3175 with mandatory packages. Then if you want the car to look as cool as it does in all the pictures you need to spend over $10k on carbon fiber packages. I get that is this a fairly low volume vehicle targeted at a shrinking demographic but still seems excessive.

What I appreciate most about the 4BW is that is strikes a good balance of performance and practicality and I can row my own gears. It ticks a lot of boxes but once it goes north of $70k I think the value proposition is lost. Just my opinion, no offense to anyone.