A Little-V Blog: The ATS-V purchase and ownership experience

[Hib Halverson]

Ah...Ryan Newman drives the 31 Caterpillar Chevrolet for Richard Childress not a Ford for Penske.

Childress is an long-time Cup owner and former driver. I betcha he knew what was going on. His team just got caught.

oops.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Ok...I done it. Put my moneys down on a 2016 ATS-V!

Well, actually, I gave the dealer a deposit but we decided to not place the order until Cadillac releases all the pricing...just in case one of these options includes some late-introduction unobtanium muffler bearing as standard equipment and the price goes too far out of sight.

But, you know, I'm still ranting about Cadillac's screwy equipment groups.

I went down to Bunnin Cadillac, today, figuring to order the HUD and the "Luxury" package, but, it turns out, if you order the Luxury package separately and not in conjunction with the "Safety and Security" package (which, I might add is a further combination of the "advanced security" package and the "driver awareness" package) you cannot have the HUD. WTF?

I have to say that Juan Miller, the person who builds all the orders at Bunnin Chevrolet/Cadillac, was very helpful and patient with me and guiding me though the confusing labyrinth that is Cadillac's option list. If you want to order a Chevy or a Caddy, Juan is the go-to guy.

Anyway, on learning I can't have an HUD if I want the "Luxury" package as a standalone, I was exasperated, so I "threw in the towel" and dropped the Y91 Luxury Package from the order. I went with just the Y26 uplevel Bose sound system w. navi along with the HUD, which, when ordered by itself, without Luxury and Safety/Security packages, is available.

Here's another weird one for ya: last week, each time Juan emailed me a tentative order, the WE2 Recaro Seats was on the order, but I never put them on the list. Turns out that the base seats are only available with black interiors. If you want either of the other two ATS-V interiors, the Recaros are required. Since I'm not going to track this car and I thought my Wife, the Fairest Sandra the Red, would not want stiff seating with high side bolsters, I was going to go with the base seats. Though another quirk in Cadillac's optional equipment offerings, I'm going to buy Recaros. Hope she likes 'em.

I wish Cadillac didn't have this love affairwith equipment groups and made available more of their options on a standalone basis.

Hey...I'm most interested in how a 464-hp engine in a 3700-lb small sedan feels accelerating on a long freeway on ramp. I want to have killer chassis and brakes so I can go roast BMW M3s and M4s on Route 33 up over the mountains and out towards Maricopa. Who the heck needs a "driver awareness" package to do that?

Speaking of American "iron" whipping-ass on BMWs, the ATS-V, is going to be one of the more U.S. contented of American cars. The engine, automatic transmission and drive axle are all made in USA. The car is assembled in Lansing MI.riot:

 

[Hib Halverson]

This week, the Fairest Sandra the Red and I are in NYC for a vacation/sightseeing trip. We visited the 9/11 Memorial and Museum. We had beers at O'Harra's the famed bar adjacent to the WTC site. We went to a Yankees game (they lost), we went to the Brooklyn Brewery (a great brown ale, they have), we had shopportunities at Bloomingdale's and Tiffany's, we had dinner at PJ Clarke's and, finally, we visited an FDNY station on 8-Av., home to Engine 54, Ladder 4 and Battalion 7, to pay our respects to the brave firefighters of the FDNY. Fifteen firefighters from that station were killed on 9/11/01. It was very sobering to stand in front of the wall inside the station which had the pictures of all 15 of those guys. If that wasn't enough, there were plaques on the wall honoring the memory of five other firefighters from that station who had made the supreme sacrifice since 1973. Reminds all of us that firefighting is a very dangerous job no matter what the cause of the fire.

While we were on this trip, I got an email from my new best friend at Bunnin Cadillac, Juan Miller, saying that he finally had pricing for options and that the list of RPOs I want on our ATS-V will run about $5000 and change.

But, you know...I'm still having reservations about the navi which comes with CUE. "Tuna" and I have had several off-line communications about his experiences with the system in his ATS which, I must add, were pretty good.

That said, I spent an hour last night reading recent road tests of cars with CUE along with reviews of the CUE package, itself, by some techie web sites. The prevailing opinion is that CUE is not an easy system to learn or use and that the navigation system option is not very well executed compared to the typical, popularly-priced Garmin hand-held Navi. RPO Y26, the upgrade to CUE that gets you the navigation system is about a thousand bucks. I could buy half a dozen Garmins for that so...I'm still a little hesitant.

I've got a couple of days to think more about that before I go into the dealer and–now that I have official pricing–place the order.

 

[~tc~]

One - the reviews are based on people who only have the car for a short time and don't set it up to their preferences. You can see this in the reviews - people who have reviewed other Caddyshack or spent more time in the car have a more positive review. Spend A LITTLE time with it getting it set up how you like it, and it's worlds better IMHO.

Two - the handhelds can be a real pain in the rear. They obviously aren't integrated with the stereo, so you kind of have to choose - music or nav. You have to take it down and hide it every time you park. The screen is not even half as big. Also, doesn't getting the nav get you other things like backup camera, forward camera if you get the carbon package, etc? I'm guessing you decided not to go with the Performance Data Recorder?

 

[Hib Halverson]

After emailing off-line with "Tuna", reading your post ~tc~ and talking more with my Wife about how she uses a GPS, I'm keeping Y26 on my list.

'Preciate the input, folks!

 

[Hib Halverson]

Was at Bunnin Chevrolet/Cadillac yesterday afternoon and had Juan Miller put the order in. It's #SNMVWK.

It will be a Crystal White ATS-V sedan with the 8-spd automatic, red brake calipers, Recaro seats, the navigation system and the 10-spkr sound system.

Had one more problem with Cadillac's odd availability of options. We wanted the Light Platinum interior, but when Juan went to order the car that way he could not. Turns out to get any interior color other than black, you also have to order the Y91 :Luxury Package" but, when you order that, you cannot have the UV6 Head-Up Display as a standalone option. If you order Y91 and, also, want UV6 you must order another of Cadillac's packages the PCW "Safety and Security Package" and that requires the Y65 "Driver Awareness" Package which forces all the "nanny" devices to protect stupid drivers from themselves. The ATS-V is supposed to be a "driver's" sports sedan. Real drivers don't need a lot of annoying electronics to make them aware.

My solution? I ordered a black interior. Got my Recaros, my HUD and no freakin' nannies!

I can hardly wait to get the car! I'll break the engine in for 500 miles, change to some premium synthetic engine oil then go hunting BMW M3s.

Thanks to Juan Miller at Bunnin Cadillac for helping me navigate the sometimes difficult ordering process.

 

[Tuna]

Was at Bunnin Chevrolet/Cadillac yesterday afternoon and had Juan Miller put the order in. It's #SNMVWK.
(snip)
I can hardly wait to get the car! I'll break the engine in for 500 miles, change to some premium synthetic engine oil then go hunting BMW M3s.

Thanks to Juan Miller at Bunnin Cadillac for helping me navigate the sometimes difficult ordering process.

Congratulations! ocker:

 

[Hib Halverson]

Dropped by Bunnin Cadillac today to see if GM accepted the order and I was told...no news.:frown:

 

[Hib Halverson]

Well....(sigh)...not much to report on the Little V-Blog. I wrote the dealer a deposit check and placed my order but, as yet, Cadillac has not accepted the order.

In the meantime, as you all can see elsewhere on the V-net the mainstream road test magazines and web sites are starting to test ATS-Vs. They all seem to love the car...except for the CUE system.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Wow.

Looked at the calendar, today, and realized it's been a month since I put down my deposit and Cadillac still has not returned any information on my ATS-V order other than an order number.

I've emailed Cadillac's media contact, David Caldwell, several times asking about both the ordering situation and the confusion about the car either having run-flat tires or not having them, and I never get a reply. I guess that says something about the GM assessment of the V-Net's relevancy. I would have thought GM would be a little more interested in responding.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Last weekend, I was down in Bowling Green KY for a Corvette event at the National Corvette Museum.

I ran into John Heinricy, the former GM Performance Division Chief Engineer and a 12-time SCCA Champion road racer. We were talking about the ATS-V and and it’s LF4. He wonders why Cadillac didn’t use a normally aspirated version of the Corvette's 6.2L LT1. He claims that any platform with an under hood big enough for a V6 twin-turbo will accept the Gen 5 V8. While I don’t necessarily agree with John’s advocacy of a V8 in the car, I’d would be interested to know if, during the early discussions about what an ATS-V should be, did the "V8 vs V6-turbo” debate take place and why did the V6 win-out?

In fact, I asked Cadillac's media guy, Dave Caldwell, that question in my last email.

What are the odds that he'll answer?

 

[Tuna]

Given that the new Camaro has a version of the ATS chassis and will definitely get a V8, I would assume that the V8 would fit in the ATS as well.

My guess is that Cadillac wants to show case the V6TT in the ATS and, just maybe, the V6TT package gives them more flexibility in the Pirelli World Challenge series.

Dave Caldwell answer? Depends on how well he likes you! :biggrin:

 

[~tc~]

I would guess the real answer is that CTS-V gets V8, but the technical excuse is that the TTV6 is lighter and shorter helping the balance.

What I'm wondering is with the ease of tuning turbo cars which will actually put more power to the pavement ... VSport guys are reporting >500 to the wheels with the trifecta tune ...

 

[Hib Halverson]

I would guess the real answer is that CTS-V gets V8, but the technical excuse is that the TTV6 is lighter and shorter helping the balance.

What I'm wondering is with the ease of tuning turbo cars which will actually put more power to the pavement ... VSport guys are reporting >500 to the wheels with the trifecta tune ...

Wait a minute....
They're reporting 500-hp at the wheels with just an ECM calibration? Holy crap, that's about 580 at the flywheel or an increase of 160-hp? Is that uncorrected, STP-corrected or SAE-corrected? Also, on what kind of dyno were these tests run? Finally, to gain that much with just a cal, would likely require a lot more boost so...what kind of gasoline did they run?

 

[Hib Halverson]

(snip)

Dave Caldwell answer? Depends on how well he likes you! :biggrin:

I suspect that I'm not on his Christmas Card list these days.

 

[Grumpy]

I ran into John Heinricy, the former GM Performance Division Chief Engineer and a 12-time SCCA Champion road racer. We were talking about the ATS-V and and it’s LF4. He wonders why Cadillac didn’t use a normally aspirated version of the Corvette's 6.2L LT1. He claims that any platform with an under hood big enough for a V6 twin-turbo will accept the Gen 5 V8. While I don’t necessarily agree with John’s advocacy of a V8 in the car, I’d would be interested to know if, during the early discussions about what an ATS-V should be, did the "V8 vs V6-turbo” debate take place and why did the V6 win-out?

In fact, I asked Cadillac's media guy, Dave Caldwell, that question in my last email.

What are the odds that he'll answer?

An today there is this.....
Cadillac ATS-V+ to Feature LS7 V-8 Power

 

[~tc~]

Wait a minuter....
They're reporting 500-hp at the wheels with just an ECM calibration? Holy crap, that's about 580 at the flywheel or an increase of 160-hp? Is that uncorrected, STP-corrected or SAE-corrected? Also, on what kind of dyno were these tests run? Finally, to gain that much with just a cal, would likely require a lot more boost so...what kind of gasoline did they run?

Yes, welcome to the world of turbo cars. Boost is increased from 12 psi to 18 psi, and then additional power can be added by fine tuning the fuel and ignition mapping.

These have all been on 93 octane to my knowledge. You can go even further with an "E85" tune due to its even higher resistance to detonation, but I'm not sure anyone has been willing to push the boost and fuel that far.

According to Trifecta and Hennessey, it appears the high pressure fuel pump is the limiting factor, and apparently there are not any "off the shelf" solutions right now - hopefully that changes with the ATSV.

I don't know the details on the dynos. I've seen a few different reports, it would be an incredible coincidence that they were all the same type/calibration.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Yes, welcome to the world of turbo cars. Boost is increased from 12 psi to 18 psi, and then additional power can be added by fine tuning the fuel and ignition mapping.

Actually, if you didn't pick it up in my earlier post, I'm highly skeptical of that increase. Either the dyno numbers have been inflated by fooling with the correction factors or test temperatures or the data is just bogus. I get that there will be a torque increase with a 4-psi increase in boost but I'd have to "see it to believe it" to accept an increase of 40% just with cal.

Bring me a CTS V-sport and this killer cal you're talking bout. I'll run it on my chassis dyno, put in the cal then run again. If I see 160-more hp just with the cal, I'll eat crow right on this blog. I'll even supply the 100-octane unleaded gas.

These have all been on 93 octane to my knowledge.

I can see that as long as the IAT and ECT are kept cool and the driver rolls into the throttle smoothly, but you can bet the engine is not going to make that kind of power for long on 93 and not get KR.

You can go even further with an "E85" tune due to its even higher resistance to detonation, but I'm not sure anyone has been willing to push the boost and fuel that far.

It's not the tune which has a higher resistance to detonation, it's the E85 itself which, if the fuel is truly 85% ethanol, is about 105-octane. Problem is the air-fuel for E85 is much more rich so you can't just put E85 in the tank, throw an E85 tune on the motor and expect it to magically make more power. You're going to need an injector change, too.

According to Trifecta and Hennessey, it appears the high pressure fuel pump is the limiting factor, and apparently there are not any "off the shelf" solutions right now - hopefully that changes with the ATSV

They're right. LPE told me that a year ago and the problem is not inadequate fuel flow at high rpm. It's inadequate fuel flow and mid-range rpm. The pumps on the lower hp engines cannot flow enough fuel in the 2000-4000 rpm range to support the increased torque output at those engine speeds which can some from increased air flow.

I don't know the details on the dynes.

Not knowing the dyno correction and other details is how you can flimflam people with dyno results.

But, you know what...with my soon-to-come ATS-V, I'm actually going to be happy with 464-hp or so. Sure I might stick a better air filter on the engine and maybe add a different exhaust looking for 480 just to be able to say I could do it, but when I really want to go fast, I'll switch to another vehicle.

As for "tunes" for an ATS-V, I'm told that 2016 Cadillacs are supposed to be the first GM vehicles to go to the over-the-air update of calibrations, that is, there won't be any more flashing the ECM at the field level. Cal updates will come from something like On-Star. Until the EFI Lives and HPTuners of the world figure out a way to breach that system such that users can get access to the ECM calibration, there is likely not going to be any "tuning" in the way we DIYs have known it since 1996.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Heard from my pal Juan Miller at Bunnin Chevrolet/Cadillac.

The plant which makes the ATS-V is supposed to start making 2016s on 1 June, i.e.: Monday Morning.

He said he should hear soon from Cadillac when my car will be built.
ocker:

 

[Hib Halverson]

Hey...I just watched this video of Pilgrim in an ATS-V at Belle Isle. It's a street course, which I dearly hate, but it's a cool video. I love the sound of the V6. In fact, it sounds louder than I was expecting.

I finally heard from Dave Caldwell at Cadillac on some of the questions I've been sending him.

On the run-flat tire issue I've been talking about for a while turns out that anyone getting information from a dealer saying the car has run-flats, can rest assured. It does not use RFTs. The ATS-V uses a non-run flat version of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport. The car comes with an inflation kit so if you have a small leak, like a nail or something, you can temporarily fix it with that. If you have a more significant tire failure, better have a AAA card.