A Little-V Blog: The ATS-V purchase and ownership experience

[Djason]

Awesome rundown of your time at SEMA Hib. Great info and great read!

Didn't realize KOOKS was doing the catted DP's and mid pipe. May have to look into that as I've been a KOOKS fan for many a year. Just need to figure out what I'm gonna do to replace the factory "muffler".

Looked at the Corsa's as well but listening to them on their vid I think the Sport may be a tad too loud but not sure. Hate to loose the valve so the jury is still out on replacements.

MagnaFlow is also working on an axle back and keeping the stock valves.

Thanks for sharing Hib!

 

[Hib Halverson]

I'd heard that MagnaFlow was developing an ATS-V exhaust product, but I decided to keep my SEMA story focused on products already available.

I'm thinking about testing a package of the TurboSmart BOVs, the K&N AirCharger, the Kooks catted DPs and the OE cal.

 

[Djason]

I'd heard that MagnaFlow was developing an ATS-V exhaust product, but I decided to keep my SEMA story focused on products already available.

I'm thinking about testing a package of the TurboSmart BOVs, the K&N AirCharger, the Kooks catted DPs and the OE cal.

Would be curious to see how those mods respond.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Unfortunately, Corvette Magazine has me really busy right now, plus I'm gong back to Michigan to work for them and pick up my '12 Z06 at Katech and drive it back to CA, so it's not going to be until early 2018 that I actually get around to putting the stuff on the Blue BMW Buster and testing. First step will be to get the car over to Westech to baseline it on their chassis dyno. I'm thinking I'll put the K&N kit on, first, then add the Kooks parts and the BOVs.

What do you think?

 

[Djason]

Unfortunately, Corvette Magazine has me really busy right now, plus I'm gong back to Michigan to work for them and pick up my '12 Z06 at Katech and drive it back to CA, so it's not going to be until early 2018 that I actually get around to putting the stuff on the Blue BMW Buster and testing. First step will be to get the car over to Westech to baseline it on their chassis dyno. I'm thinking I'll put the K&N kit on, first, then add the Kooks parts and the BOVs.

What do you think?

That sounds like a blast Hib...love the R&D and products Katech has made available. Did you have them do one of their track attack packages for the Z06? I've done a few of their things on mine.



Honestly I'd love to see what the K&N intakes, BOV's and KOOKS would due on a stock tune ATS-V. From what I'm reading many have seen pretty significant gains. Be sure to post up once you get things in place next year. I've talked to a rep at KOOKS about the ATS-V exhaust. Looks like that's next for me. I'll be posting up some pics, document the next round of mods and some final vids on the dyno. Shooting for 550rw/580tq. CTS-V what? :smile:

 

[Hib Halverson]

That sounds like a blast Hib...love the R&D and products Katech has made available. Did you have them do one of their track attack packages for the Z06? I've done a few of their things on mine.

Sadly, no. The track attack package would never pass the California "Smog Check". I'm getting a "Street Attack" LS7 without the head milling (because of our 91-oct gas out west), with stock manifolds (because headers w/o EOs are not legal here) and with the Torquer 116 cam (because the Torquer 112 will not pass the smog check). I'm opting for the bigger TB and I'm using an MSD intake manifold along with my "bastardized" 2011/2012 exhaust system. I have my fingers X'ed that the engine will make 625 on Katech's dyno then I'll subtract 10-15 horsepower for the stock manifolds.

Having a Vette with a Katech motor in it has been a "bucket list" thing for me.

Honestly I'd love to see what the K&N intakes, BOV's and KOOKS would due on a stock tune ATS-V. From what I'm reading many have seen pretty significant gains. Be sure to post up once you get things in place next year. I've talked to a rep at KOOKS about the ATS-V exhaust. Looks like that's next for me. I'll be posting up some pics, document the next round of mods and some final vids on the dyno. Shooting for 550rw/580tq. CTS-V what? :smile:

The owner of the V-Net site and I are considering just such a project. Whether we do it or not will depend on what kind of price break all the manufacturers involved will give us on the pieces needed to do the story. What kind of deal did Kooks make you on the exhaust parts?

550 at the wheels, using the "15% rule," is about 650 at the motor or about 200-hp more than stock. No wonder you're worried about fuel delivery.: When you get air/fuel data, do you rely on whatever AFR measuring equipment the chassis dyno has or do you have a wideband in your exhaust with some on-board display device?

On the Cadillac forum, I read your last post and it said you have stock exhaust and tune...did I read that right...that you have an OE ECM calibration?

 

[Djason]

The owner of the V-Net site and I are considering just such a project. Whether we do it or not will depend on what kind of price break all the manufacturers involved will give us on the pieces needed to do the story. What kind of deal did Kooks make you on the exhaust parts?

550 at the wheels, using the "15% rule," is about 650 at the motor or about 200-hp more than stock. No wonder you're worried about fuel delivery.: When you get air/fuel data, do you rely on whatever AFR measuring equipment the chassis dyno has or do you have a wideband in your exhaust with some on-board display device?

On the Cadillac forum, I read your last post and it said you have stock exhaust and tune...did I read that right...that you have an OE ECM calibration?

They gave me a slight discount but nothing major. They may have thrown in free shipping too as I don't see it on the invoice. I'm thinking the drivetrain loss will be a bit less than 15% as it's a manual too. Thinking more like 10-12%. But yes it will be considerably more than stock so AFR's will be watched like a hawk. Don't need a repeat. I'll be installing a wideband to get a slightly more accurate/faster reading before we start doing pulls on the dyno and street.

All I have at this point is the drop in K&N's in the factory unmolested box and tune. It still feels good but taking out 80+rwtq and 40+rwhp does make a huge difference in how the cars feels. I miss that last set up. Car felt like it was suppose to feel from the factory.

As soon as I take delivery from KOOKS and finally decide on the axle back I'll be starting a thread on the next round of mods. I've got a guy in Austin that looks to be able to address the the low side pump issues. Once that is resolved and the fuel rail pressure stays where it needs to be this little Caddy will be an amazing performer. CTS-V what? Should be able to embarrass 80% of the cars I run with.

 

[Hib Halverson]

I'm gong to stay conservative on the driveline loss issue...15%.

With respect to the wideband thing...I drill all my exhausts for a bung so I can install my Innovate Motorsports LC2 before I do any dyno testing or on-road tuning.

With the LF4 and the stock fuel system, it's the long pulls at WOT in higher gears–like, say you want to run over 150-mph in fifth gear–where I think you're going to have trouble at the 600-hp level. I should ask those guys I know at GM what they were doing on the LF4.R engines for fuel supply. Since Cadillac's ATS-V.R program has ended, I can't see how it would be any secret.

 

[Djason]

I'm gong to stay conservative on the driveline loss issue...15%.

With respect to the wideband thing...I drill all my exhausts for a bung so I can install my Innovate Motorsports LC2 before I do any dyno testing or on-road tuning.

With the LF4 and the stock fuel system, it's the long pulls at WOT in higher gears–like, say you want to run over 150-mph in fifth gear–where I think you're going to have trouble at the 600-hp level. I should ask those guys I know at GM what they were doing on the LF4.R engines for fuel supply. Since Cadillac's ATS-V.R program has ended, I can't see how it would be any secret.

Yes the Innovate LC2 is a great piece I've used before. My '99 SS Camaro was 1100 rwhp and it worked flawlessly. Not sure which direction I'll go with ATS-V. Possibly a hidden one in the glove box similar to what Ben has used.



Totally agree the issues are sustained pulls with high loads in higher gears. I'm not sure how close we were before but it took several runs (20psi at 170+) before it was hurt. We were at 542/561 with a stock fuel system. The weak link seems to be the low side pump so increasing the low side to feed the high side mechanical pump to hold correct rail pressure we're hoping will be the ticket. I'll know more after we start testing the new system.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Cadillac Racing's solution to the LF4.R's fuel supply problem must have caused one of those "Well...duh" moments.

They added a second pump on the right head. Interestingly, the two pumps used for the LF4.R are OE pumps off the 2.0L DGI Turbo engine.

The low pressure pumps in the fuel tank are also upgraded, but based on what GM did, becareful about trying to "re-invent" the wheel. GM already has determined, at the 550-600-hp level, the engine needed more fuel flow. That they added more high-pressure pump capacity to meet that goal. is telling. My guess is you're not going to find any differently.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Happy New Year, folks.

I haven't posted to this blog in a while. During the first two weeks of December, I was busy working on Corvette content for Corvette Magazine and for my C6 blog. Then, for the last two weeks of Dec, I took a couple days off to make a run over to Las Vegas to see Britney Spears show "A Piece of Me" on the 19th. Actually, Brit put on quite a show...well worth the cost of the pricey tickets. I'd say the show is highly-recommended, but unfortunately, on Dec. 31st, after a four-year run, she ended her residency shows at Planet Hollywood. After got home from Vegas, I came down with a gnarly cough and cold that put me in bed for three days. Then came the Christmas/New Years activities. Needless to say, there was no rest for the wicked who was also sick with a cold, but, I digress....

Enough of the sob story. It's 5JAN and my Corvette writing is done for now and that crappy cough/cold I had is gone.

I wanted to update the Little-V Blog as to what's going on with Pearl, our 2016 ATS-V Sedan which has an annoying, frustrating and recurring problem with oil burning after cold starts. Back in post #219, I stated that the car had begun a second round of oil smoky cold starts. I shot video footage of the problem and forwarded the footage to my dealer who sent it on to GM's Technical Assistance Center ("TAC"). After a while, TAC contacted my dealer, Bunnin Cadillac of Santa Barbara CA, and told them to begin an oil use test and replace some hoses and/or tubes in the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system–in spite of TAC being advised by Bunnin's Lead Service Tech that the he had the exhaust off the car and visually checked the turbocharger compressor wheels and compressor housings for oil residue and found both compressor turbine wheels wet with oil.

Hey TAC! Did you, like...get the memo? The turbos are bad!

My belief is that the second set of turbochargers have the same problem as the first two: some kind of reliability/durability problem with the turbocharger shaft seals which causes oil to leak out of the turbocharger bearing cavity onto the turbine and compressor wheels after the engine is shut down and sits overnight without running again until the next day.

As usual, GM's pace in addressing this nagging customer satisfaction issue is sloth-like.

In the meantime, my Wife, the Fairest Sandra the Red, continues to drive Pearl with its new PCV hoses and lines. Every morning the rear of the car is obscured by a cloud of smoke as the exhaust expels burnt oil for 5 or 10 seconds after start up.

As for our other ATS-V, the 2016 Coupe I drive every day, since the transmission was replaced last year? the Blue BMW Buster, also, has begun to blow oil smoke on some cold starts but not near to the extent of the other car. Some might think this a problem with engine oil but for quite some time the Sedan has used a Dexos-licensed full synthetic 5W30 marketed by Valvoline and the Coupe has Dexos-licensed 5W30 Mobil 1 in it.

My view remains that GM has some kind of durability problem with the turbocharger shaft sealing system in the turbochargers it uses on the LF4 engine.

I suspect that one reason–but, admittedly, not the only reason–Cadillac passenger car sales continue to slide, is the customer-unfriendly way Cadillac handles warranty claims above the dealer level.

Last month, sales of Cadillac entire passenger car portfolio were exceeded by sales of the Chevy Bolt EV...sad, but true.

In my opinion, Mary Barra needs to "clean house" at Cadillac. Send Johan de Nysschen packing, hire a new President of Cadillac, then have him kick some ass in the sales, marketing, advertising and customer satisfaction organizations such that they can sell some of the pretty darn good cars Cadillac develops and they can administrate Cadillac warranties in a way that doesn't anger and disrespect customers.

Sometimes I wish I didn't have to bitch-out Cadillac as much as I do in this blog because I really do like my ATS-Vs, but, as long as I continue to be puzzled and frustrated at the non-expeditious manner with which GM addresses warranty issues above the dealer level, I'll have to continue to report the situations as I see them.

 

[LAROKE]

Thanx again, Hib.

I have had my '17 ATS-V Coupe just short of one year now. Most of my trips are back-n-forth to work, a round trip of fifteen miles or so, but in the fall, I ran away from Hurricane Irma from South Florida to my brother's place outside Pittsburgh so now the Caddy "Elvira" has a little more than 8,500 miles on the odo.

I have experienced the smoking problem a hand full of times and in my case it is so slight that except for two of those times I wouldn't have noticed if not looking for the problem. For the time being, I'm going to just wait and watch.

I remain,

Larry Kephart

 

[Unclevito]

Changing GM management

Happy New Year, folks.

I haven't posted to this blog in a while. During the first two weeks of December, I was busy working on Corvette content for Corvette Magazine and for my C6 blog. Then, for the last two weeks of Dec, I took a couple days off to make a run over to Las Vegas to see Britney Spears show "A Piece of Me" on the 19th. Actually, Brit put on quite a show...well worth the cost of the pricey tickets. I'd say the show is highly-recommended, but unfortunately, on Dec. 31st, after a four-year run, she ended her residency shows at Planet Hollywood. After got home from Vegas, I came down with a gnarly cough and cold that put me in bed for three days. Then came the Christmas/New Years activities. Needless to say, there was no rest for the wicked who was also sick with a cold, but, I digress....

Enough of the sob story. It's 5JAN and my Corvette writing is done for now and that crappy cough/cold I had is gone.

I wanted to update the Little-V Blog as to what's going on with Pearl, our 2016 ATS-V Sedan which has an annoying, frustrating and recurring problem with oil burning after cold starts. Back in post #219, I stated that the car had begun a second round of oil smoky cold starts. I shot video footage of the problem and forwarded the footage to my dealer who sent it on to GM's Technical Assistance Center ("TAC"). After a while, TAC contacted my dealer, Bunnin Cadillac of Santa Barbara CA, and told them to begin an oil use test and replace some hoses and/or tubes in the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system–in spite of TAC being advised by Bunnin's Lead Service Tech that the he had the exhaust off the car and visually checked the turbocharger compressor wheels and compressor housings for oil residue and found both compressor turbine wheels wet with oil.

Hey TAC! Did you, like...get the memo? The turbos are bad!

My belief is that the second set of turbochargers have the same problem as the first two: some kind of reliability/durability problem with the turbocharger shaft seals which causes oil to leak out of the turbocharger bearing cavity onto the turbine and compressor wheels after the engine is shut down and sits overnight without running again until the next day.

As usual, GM's pace in addressing this nagging customer satisfaction issue is sloth-like.

In the meantime, my Wife, the Fairest Sandra the Red, continues to drive Pearl with its new PCV hoses and lines. Every morning the rear of the car is obscured by a cloud of smoke as the exhaust expels burnt oil for 5 or 10 seconds after start up.

As for our other ATS-V, the 2019 Coupe I drive every day, since the transmission was replaced last year? the Blue BMW Buster, also, has begun to blow oil smoke on some cold starts but not near to the extent of the other car. Some might think this a problem with engine oil but for quite some time the Sedan has used a Dexos-licensed full synthetic 5W30 marketed by Valvoline and the Coupe has Dexos-licensed 5W30 Mobil 1 in it.

My view remains that GM has some kind of durability problem with the turbocharger shaft sealing system in the turbochargers it uses on the LF4 engine.

I suspect that one reason–but, admittedly, not the only reason–Cadillac passenger car sales continue to slide, is the customer-unfriendly way Cadillac handles warranty claims above the dealer level.

Last month, sales of Cadillac entire passenger car portfolio were exceeded by sales of the Chevy Bolt EV...sad, but true.

In my opinion, Mary Barra needs to "clean house" at Cadillac. Send Johan de Nysschen packing, hire a new President of Cadillac, then have him kick some ass in the sales, marketing, advertising and customer satisfaction organizations such that they can sell some of the pretty darn good cars Cadillac develops and they can administrate Cadillac warranties in a way that doesn't anger and disrespect customers.

Sometimes I wish I didn't have to bitch-out Cadillac as much as I do in this blog because I really do like my ATS-Vs, but, as long as I continue to be puzzled and frustrated at the non-expeditious manner with which GM addresses warranty issues above the dealer level, I'll have to continue to report the situations as I see them.

Hear one of the problems with changing GM/Cadillac management is that they draw from a pool of car guys in Detroit. There was talk of moving the GM/Cad headquarters out of Michigan in order to get managers without auto backgrounds and with new ideas on how to build cars and treat customers. Perhaps GM headquarters should move to Silicon Valley or Seattle?

 

[Tuna]

Hib: Do you think all the twin-turbo Caddy's have oil problems? ATS-V and Vsports?

de Nysschen​

: He came from Audi and it set on making Cadillac into an Audi clone. Name changes to letters and numbers - except for the Escalade.
Cadillac headquarters is in New York now. I don't think that is working out.

Chief Marketing Officer: At GM, this position doesn't exist. GM does not have a coherent marketing strategy. de Nysschen doesn't know how to market the Cadillac.

As Hib noted, Cadillac has too many passenger cars in their line-up - especially considering that most people are buying SUVs these days.

I'm done now.

 

[Unclevito]

Need new management at Cadillac

Hib: Do you think all the twin-turbo Caddy's have oil problems? ATS-V and Vsports?

de Nysschen​

: He came from Audi and it set on making Cadillac into an Audi clone. Name changes to letters and numbers - except for the Escalade.
Cadillac headquarters is in New York now. I don't think that is working out.

Chief Marketing Officer: At GM, this position doesn't exist. GM does not have a coherent marketing strategy. de Nysschen doesn't know how to market the Cadillac.

As Hib noted, Cadillac has too many passenger cars in their line-up - especially considering that most people are buying SUVs these days.

I'm done now.

Sorry, you do not need another car moron from Audi. Marketing is not the problem Reliability is. Get the RESALE value up. Have such rags as Consumer Reports say it is a good car. Typically Cadillac owners look stupid to the foreign car buying public. Gotta get over that. Get a Tim Cook or Elon Musk to run Cadillac.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Hib: Do you think all the twin-turbo Caddy's have oil problems? ATS-V and Vsports?

I don't have enough information to comment. I think there is a possibility that GM has a problem with the seals in the turbos it buys for LF4s. It's possible that the seal material or design is not optimal for the application.

de Nysschen​

: He came from Audi and it set on making Cadillac into an Audi clone. Name changes to letters and numbers - except for the Escalade.
Cadillac headquarters is in New York now. I don't think that is working out.

Chief Marketing Officer: At GM, this position doesn't exist. GM does not have a coherent marketing strategy. de Nysschen doesn't know how to market the Cadillac.

As Hib noted, Cadillac has too many passenger cars in their line-up - especially considering that most people are buying SUVs these days.

I'm done now.

That's why in '19 or '20, but the CTS and the ATS will be killed and a new platform, sized to cover the needs of CTS and ATS, will be introduced.

Actually, people are buying the most of CUVs. Both the full-sized (think Chevy Traverse) and compact crossovers (think Chevy Equinox) are the hottest selling segments in the car business.

 

[Hib Halverson]

Sorry, you do not need another car moron from Audi. Marketing is not the problem Reliability is. Get the RESALE value up. Have such rags as Consumer Reports say it is a good car. Typically Cadillac owners look stupid to the foreign car buying public. Gotta get over that. Get a Tim Cook or Elon Musk to run Cadillac.

Elon Musk?

Yeah...right. That guy can run a car company.
:laugh:

 

[Hib Halverson]

Well, my ATS-V Coupe, the Blue BMW Buster, is back at the dealer for more warranty work at my dealer, Bunnin Cadillac.

First, it's in to fix the chronic problem it's had since the new trans was installed with setting DTCs P0733 and P0744. They are "wrong gear" codes and the usual fix is to adjust or replace the gear shift sensor.

Second, I got tired of closing the glove box door and having it only latch on the left side. I thought I could "bend" the door a bit to get it into alignment so both latches would close without repeated slamming, but the door is too stiff and won't bend. The fix (hopefully) will have to be a new door.

 

[Unclevito]

Musk

Elon Musk?

Yeah...right. That guy can run a car company.
:laugh:

Doing pretty good for a one man show. Also not unionized which is a BIG help. GM would do well to match half that guy's genius.

Notice Musk is NOT building cars in Mexico or Canada but using good old American non union labor? What do you have against that. Space X is not doing bad either. MAGA.

 

[LAROKE]

Musk is basically a modern day P.T. Barnum.