What made you choose a Blackwing and what else did you consider?

[ClassaxV]

I was seriously considering a ZL1/ZLE (as MY23 5BW might be outside my current budget) and these comments are making me having second thoughts. I am starting to think if 4BW would be a better fit for my use case (might drive the vehicle couple of times a week). I recently sold my M3 as it was missing the raw driving character but was more of a GrandTourer with just speed and luxury.


That would have been a perfect vehicle.

The tracks I have access to are tight so there's no real advantage to a ton of hp. The zl1 is great but overkill that just results in focusing on keep it reigned in vs pushing the car and yourself to the limits. The CT4VBW team talked about things having to earn their way back onto s track car. Compared the M4 to me the 4BW is simply more fun drive . It's not so refined its stops feeling like a sports car. It's hides it weight well and feel more nimble than the current M cars. Yet by the same token the LF4 may seem muted in the car but draws plenty of attention outside the car. I don't know that a v8 would have been an improvement. Roll down the windows and it becomes clear this engine is very much Jekle and Hyde .

 

[Deneed4spd]

Hear people want a scaple = ct4 vs sledgehammer = ct5. People have bought a ct4 then got the ct5. But you never hear of a ct5 owner sell and get a ct4.

 

[shbox]

Hear people want a scaple = ct4 vs sledgehammer = ct5. People have bought a ct4 then got the ct5. But you never hear of a ct5 owner sell and get a ct4.

What they do is keep the 5 and also get a 4. A few around here have both.

 

[Deneed4spd]

Raining money in their world!

 

[M2Cto4BW]

Hear people want a scaple = ct4 vs sledgehammer = ct5. People have bought a ct4 then got the ct5. But you never hear of a ct5 owner sell and get a ct4.

4BWs are a lot easier to get. Some folks bought them as a holdover until they could get 5BW allocations.

 

[Deneed4spd]

4BWs are a lot easier to get. Some folks bought them as a holdover until they could get 5BW allocations.

I ponder what is the trade in value for a ct4 blackwing when time comes to get the CT5 blackwing.

 

[ClassaxV]

Hear people want a scaple = ct4 vs sledgehammer = ct5. People have bought a ct4 then got the ct5. But you never hear of a ct5 owner sell and get a ct4.

No doubt the 5 is a great car. The additional space, luxury features and of course the v8 check a lot of boxes for many people.

The 4s are easier to obtain and alot of folks bought them as hold overs while waiting on the 5.

I considered the 5 vs the 4 but I enjoy the feel of the shorter wheel base car.
A great many like the sound of v8s and therefore gravitate to the 5. These cars have a number of features that require the accelerator to be pinned to the floor to activate. In the zl1 I personally couldn't do that nearly as much as I do with LF4 .

On a track like COTA or drag strips I'm sure the 5 is as much fun as a the ZL1 but on the street and tighter tracks at GSS and MSRH the 4BW let's you get WOT and use the upper end of range fluidly instead of the squirt lift squirr lift squirt lift of the zl1. You can't stay in it long enough to enjoy it.

Some people want a really fast car and others want a sports car . Still others prefer a driver's car that rewards you for your skills in making it go fast . To me the ATS V and CT4 V Blackwing check all those boxes as a motor sports car. Where as the CTS V and 5BW are more traditional muscle cars, I've had a Hellcat. If I were replacing it the 5 would have been on my list. But the C8, Camro and RS3 were where I was leaning because I my cars definitely go to the track, unlike 95% of other high performance car owners.

 

[flipray]

For me, it wasnt just the power difference. The backseats are pretty tight with two car seats. My older boy complained that its tight back there.

With TapOut and Burger tuning coming out with power solutions on the LF4, power wouldnt be an issue nowadays. Seems pretty easy to add an extra 100-150whp on the the 4BWs with minimal mods. Think 500whp on the 4BWs the perfect balance and power.

 

[Tall Steve]

Hear people want a scaple = ct4 vs sledgehammer = ct5. People have bought a ct4 then got the ct5. But you never hear of a ct5 owner sell and get a ct4.

I purchased a 5BW FIRST and then purchased a 4BW... I daily the 4 and the 5 is a weekend/car show queen, but I enjoy driving the 4BW much much more...... I was faster around the track at Spring Mountain in the 4 and pulled the 5's, except in the straightaways. The 4 BW does not get any respect!

 

[Tall Steve]

Raining money in their world!

 

[Exia]

A ZL1 1LE would definitely tickle my fancy if I couldn't get a 5BW. However I probably would just stick with my my current stable of C7 Z06 and Wrangler 392 and call it a day.

 

[Tall Steve]

What they do is keep the 5 and also get a 4. A few around here have both.

 

[raptor5244]

Hear people want a scaple = ct4 vs sledgehammer = ct5. People have bought a ct4 then got the ct5. But you never hear of a ct5 owner sell and get a ct4.

From a power perspective, I kind of did that when I traded my ZL1 for a 4BW. A lot of folks enjoy just knowing they have that extra power under the hood but I found it frustrating to have all that power and not really be able to use it. The limits are so high on these cars that in order for them to come alive you have to push them to, go to directly to jail levels. This is why the Mazda Miata formula works so well for so many years. Redline 3rd gear and you're barely breaking the speed limit and you feel like you are going 30mph faster than you really are.
I also didn't like the extra weight, heavier steering, tall gearing associated with the LT4 powertrain. Don't get me wrong, the raw power is nice but for me it didn't necessarily add more driving enjoyment. If you prefer the bigger sports sedan and driving it a 3/10ths most of the time then so be it. However, if you don't need the bigger sedan the 4BW is arguably more fun to drive and you can save yourself $30k. Folks have similar arguments about the ZL1 vs. SS 1LE as well as the C7 Z06 vs. C7 Grand Sport.

 

[raptor5244]

I ponder what is the trade in value for a ct4 blackwing when time comes to get the CT5 blackwing.

Dropping day by day in this market.

 

[raptor5244]

A ZL1 1LE would definitely tickle my fancy if I couldn't get a 5BW. However I probably would just stick with my my current stable of C7 Z06 and Wrangler 392 and call it a day.

I would stick with the Z06. The ZL1 1LE suspension is too hardcore for the street. If it is a dedicated track car then so be it otherwise most ZLE owners ditch them pretty quick after the honeymoon wears off. The standard ZL1 is more livable since it comes with mag-ride suspension. The ZL1 manages the power of the LT4 a bit better but I would never trade a C7 Z06 for one.

The 5BW is a different animal since you are moving to a 4 door sports sedan with a much nicer interior but you get into $100k territory and start looking at what else you could buy for that kind of money.

 

[Deneed4spd]

I would stick with the Z06. The ZL1 1LE suspension is too hardcore for the street. If it is a dedicated track car then so be it otherwise most ZLE owners ditch them pretty quick after the honeymoon wears off. The standard ZL1 is more livable since it comes with mag-ride suspension. The ZL1 manages the power of the LT4 a bit better but I would never trade a C7 Z06 for one.

The 5BW is a different animal since you are moving to a 4 door sports sedan with a much nicer interior but you get into $100k territory and start looking at what else you could buy for that kind of money.

I was staring at a GT4, but we all know the answer of why you can’t get one of those…

 

[raptor5244]

I was seriously considering a ZL1/ZLE (as MY23 5BW might be outside my current budget) and these comments are making me having second thoughts. I am starting to think if 4BW would be a better fit for my use case (might drive the vehicle couple of times a week). I recently sold my M3 as it was missing the raw driving character but was more of a GrandTourer with just speed and luxury.

The 4BW with the M6 transmission will feel more fun to drive than the M3. The 4BW feels very quick and more nimble than the ZL1. The LF4 turbo V6 feels like it is naturally aspirated to me, very little turbo lag. The main difference between the 4BW and 5BW/ZL1 from a power perspective will be the performance in the 60-130mph range during a highway pull or long straight on a track.

The 5BW/ZL1 may be faster on paper but it doesn't necessarily feel faster in the driver's seats because you have all the higher limits suspension, added weight, etc. that hides some of the performance. For example, 80mph in a ZL1 feels like you are going 50mph, so it causes you to push it harder to get a sense of speed and by then you are at 120mph and higher.

If you prefer a car that feels more alive and rewards the driver more then driving the slower car faster is typically more fun. However, if you like like to have the higher performing car but not really push it to the limits that often then you may prefer the LT4 based powertrain. It is kind of like being an olympic sprinter but you are just going for a like jog most of the time. Maybe a burst here and there but mostly just jogging.

It just depends what your prefer. Those who can afford it have a stable of cars with different personalities but I can only afford to experience them one at a time.

 

[vj123]

The tracks I have access to are tight so there's no real advantage to a ton of hp. The zl1 is great but overkill that just results in focusing on keep it reigned in vs pushing the car and yourself to the limits. The CT4VBW team talked about things having to earn their way back onto s track car. Compared the M4 to me the 4BW is simply more fun drive . It's not so refined its stops feeling like a sports car. It's hides it weight well and feel more nimble than the current M cars.

I might not be tracking mine regularly, just need something fun for the backroads. Cadillac is definitely having a proper send off for ICE with the BWs.

The 4BW with the M6 transmission will feel more fun to drive than the M3. The 4BW feels very quick and more nimble than the ZL1. The LF4 turbo V6 feels like it is naturally aspirated to me, very little turbo lag. The main difference between the 4BW and 5BW/ZL1 from a power perspective will be the performance in the 60-130mph range during a highway pull or long straight on a track.

It just depends what your prefer. Those who can afford it have a stable of cars with different personalities but I can only afford to experience them one at a time.

Between a M3 and 4BW, 4BW might win hands down for driver engagement. Before buying my M3, i didnt look into 4BW seriously due to back seat space but we hardly used it for long family trips as i have no food / drink policy in it. I have always been a sedan / hatchback guy and thinking will try something totally different (V8 / coupe) before they are extinct.

You nailed it and wish i had a option to buy both vehicles (4BW and ZL1) as they offer totally different driving experiences. I am glad that we live in an age where we still have them as an option to buy them brand new.

 

[Exia]

T

I would stick with the Z06. The ZL1 1LE suspension is too hardcore for the street. If it is a dedicated track car then so be it otherwise most ZLE owners ditch them pretty quick after the honeymoon wears off. The standard ZL1 is more livable since it comes with mag-ride suspension. The ZL1 manages the power of the LT4 a bit better but I would never trade a C7 Z06 for one.

The 5BW is a different animal since you are moving to a 4 door sports sedan with a much nicer interior but you get into $100k territory and start looking at what else you could buy for that kind of money.

To be fair I don't mean I'd sell the Z06 for the ZL1, it would be an addition much like my 5BW will be.

I loved my ZLE and I'd like to have another down the road.

 

[white98ls]

From a power perspective, I kind of did that when I traded my ZL1 for a 4BW. A lot of folks enjoy just knowing they have that extra power under the hood but I found it frustrating to have all that power and not really be able to use it. The limits are so high on these cars that in order for them to come alive you have to push them to, go to directly to jail levels. This is why the Mazda Miata formula works so well for so many years. Redline 3rd gear and you're barely breaking the speed limit and you feel like you are going 30mph faster than you really are.

This is my biggest worry about my incoming 5BW - that it'll be too fast and too frustrating on the road. I've always had relatively slower sports cars as 2nd cars (S2000, now an Elise) and faster dailies (E39 M5, E90 M3, now Civic Type R). I love that the 5BW is fast as all hell and hope it'll feel like the E39 M5 did, just more/newer. But I could totally see myself getting frustrated and swapping for a 4BW (really wish the back seats were bigger though).