CT5-V Tracking 5BW Advice

[strohw]

So the system is not exactly going to function optimally and is going to have compromised whenever you deviate

What exactly is the compromise. Based off the article you posted, there are only 2 functions. Stage 1 warning and Stage 2 limp mode. If you're never triggering the limp mode then it doesn't matter.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

It's no where near $1500 per track day. Even if you replaced your tires, rotors and brake pads every 5 track days that's only $620 per track day. Front rotors are $1100 shipped and you can change them yourself in less than an hour. You should be running track pads for $500-600 and not $800 OEM pads not don't last. 200TW and OEM tires are $1300 for a set or around $1500 installed. Also like mentioned, it's very unlikely you have warped rotors.

The kicker for me is the Track Insurance cost. It's REALLY high. Next year when my work schedule evens out, I'm grabbing a yearly policy from OpenTrack. Only way I have found to keep that cost under control.

 

[Matt27]

Arrive and drive BMW ? Wuuut ?

The only true arrive and drive cars that I know of are GT4 and GT3 etc. And even then I know of ppl who can go trough a set of tires in a day in these cars. It's a driver thing too

It's not any better with the new M3, trust me, the only thing is maybe the OEM brake fluid witch lasts even with track pads. It's even worse, I need camber plates, I run big 295 square tires setup, front monoballs, Pagid RSL29 pads all around, front brake cooling duct kit and still can't keep up with an equivalent driver in a SS 1LE on top of having absolutely no feeling of what the tires are doing + a front and rear end who feel like they have a mind of there own and speak a totally different language. You feel stuff in the bucket seats but absolutely nothing trough the steering, not very confidence inspiring.

I will be dead honest my 2018 M2 felt a bit more connected and it was very far from being great for giving feedback.

I will add with experience I learned that true endurance components will go a long way in keeping running costs low, endurance pads like Pagid RSL29, Ferodo 3.12 and the new EBC sintered SR11, Hankook RS4, Conti Extreme Force, AD09 are some exemples.

I think he may have been referring to manufacturer programs where you drive their car.

BMW does a traveling circus every year (M Track Days) and it's a great program. I try to go to Monticello every year since the facility is incredible.

 

[Carguyshu]

What exactly is the compromise. Based off the article you posted, there are only 2 functions. Stage 1 warning and Stage 2 limp mode. If you're never triggering the limp mode then it doesn't matter.

That article is only talking about the warnings. The factory compound is part of that calculation as well as many other like the stability control, e diff, abs function, etc. this is brake by wire not a normal system.

 

[jodakid69]

I think he may have been referring to manufacturer programs where you drive their car.

BMW does a traveling circus every year (M Track Days) and it's a great program. I try to go to Monticello every year since the facility is incredible.

Correct.

I have incorrectly used the term "Arrive and Drive".

I have done BMW "Track Days"; as well as SpringMountain, BMW, AMG, and Lexus "Driving Schools". I also did a BMW-sponsored Track Day at the Nurburgring.

I group all of these events as "arrive and drive", as in I am not bringing my own vehicle and did not need to focus on car prep or maintenance when attending. Sorry for the confusion in terminology, I did not mean to imply HPDE arrive and drive for my earlier comment.

 

[Head Hunter]

The kicker for me is the Track Insurance cost. It's REALLY high. Next year when my work schedule evens out, I'm grabbing a yearly policy from OpenTrack. Only way I have found to keep that cost under control.

Agreed - $800 for a single day of HPDE on a $12k deductible policy is pretty asinine and basically just catastrophic coverage

 

[S2K_MoZo]

Some excellent info in here. Learning a ton about this platform coming from Corvettes and S2000s before that. Where did you guys get the car aligned for the track? My cadillac dealer told me that they can't do any track alignment. They can just do stock. They were happy to do the oil, brake fluid swap and diff fluid.

 

[sonny200]

Thanks to everyone for their very helpful input. I swapped out the brake fluid before the track day to DOT4. (Actually just a 3-session event.) I left the alignment alone. Got Track Day Ins for $480 with declared value of $84k with 10% deductible. Rented a U-Haul car hauler & used my F-150 to get us there/back. The 5BW had ways more in it than I did. Even though it was a blisteringly hot day, everything held up great -- brakes, tires, tranny, clutch. A full tank of go juice barely lasted those 3, 20-minute sessions. I was last at VIR 10 years ago so very rusty. I learned the track back in 1999 when the Oak Tree was still at Oak Tree Turn (T12). Without that landmark, I was totally lost entering that turn. I also wasn't very aggressive with the brake as I was braking early & not as hard as I could/should have. But I still had great fun. Here are vids of Session 2 & Session 3. Session 1 isn't worth showing bc I was in "recon mode" to relearn the track.

 

[poor-sha]

Some excellent info in here. Learning a ton about this platform coming from Corvettes and S2000s before that. Where did you guys get the car aligned for the track? My cadillac dealer told me that they can't do any track alignment. They can just do stock. They were happy to do the oil, brake fluid swap and diff fluid.

I'd find a local race shop, ideally one that has experience setting up gen 6 Camaros.

I've learned that the rear toe link is the same as the ZL1 so I've ordered the SPL toe link so I can get more rear camber in.

 

[PL69]

I'd find a local race shop, ideally one that has experience setting up gen 6 Camaros.

I've learned that the rear toe link is the same as the ZL1 so I've ordered the SPL toe link so I can get more rear camber in.

I was thinking about your alignment equipment the other day and told myself I wanted to ask you what alignment settings you were using on your Blackwing. ?

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Some excellent info in here. Learning a ton about this platform coming from Corvettes and S2000s before that. Where did you guys get the car aligned for the track? My cadillac dealer told me that they can't do any track alignment. They can just do stock. They were happy to do the oil, brake fluid swap and diff fluid.

They are full of crap. The track alignment is in the owners manual. When they pull up the Blackwing in the alignment computer, there are two entries...street and 'high performance driving' complete with a pop-up warning of excessive tire wear.

If you have an A10, I would strongly recommend using only the dealer. There is a lot of gadgetry in the supercruise system that could be messed up by a shop that isn't used to working on vehicles with such systems.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

I'd find a local race shop, ideally one that has experience setting up gen 6 Camaros.

I've learned that the rear toe link is the same as the ZL1 so I've ordered the SPL toe link so I can get more rear camber in.

That's awesome news. I hope you will report back with your experience once you get them on. How much rear would you like to dial in?

 

[poor-sha]

I was thinking about your alignment equipment the other day and told myself I wanted to ask you what alignment settings you were using on your Blackwing. ?

I’m trying run what is listed as the track alignment in the owners manual, but could only get -1.3 on the LR and -1.6 on the RR and still get the toe right.

I use the CSM Performance by stands. They are expensive, if you take you’re time you can get the alignment truly perfect.

That's awesome news. I hope you will report back with your experience once you get them on. How much rear would you like to dial in?

I’m thinking -1.8 rear. Maybe -2.0. I’ll report back once I have them on.

 

[PL69]

I’m trying run what is listed as the track alignment in the owners manual, but could only get -1.3 on the LR and -1.6 on the RR and still get the toe right.

I use the CSM Performance by stands. They are expensive, if you take you’re time you can get the alignment truly perfect.



I’m thinking -1.8 rear. Maybe -2.0. I’ll report back once I have them on.

In the 4BW manual if I recall correctly they say -1.8 in the rear but I would only get them to -1.7 with the correct toe. Fine with me, I am surprised you were that far in your 5BW but this can happen sometimes.

 

[Carguyshu]

Thanks to everyone for their very helpful input. I swapped out the brake fluid before the track day to DOT4. (Actually just a 3-session event.) I left the alignment alone. Got Track Day Ins for $480 with declared value of $84k with 10% deductible. Rented a U-Haul car hauler & used my F-150 to get us there/back. The 5BW had ways more in it than I did. Even though it was a blisteringly hot day, everything held up great -- brakes, tires, tranny, clutch. A full tank of go juice barely lasted those 3, 20-minute sessions. I was last at VIR 10 years ago so very rusty. I learned the track back in 1999 when the Oak Tree was still at Oak Tree Turn (T12). Without that landmark, I was totally lost entering that turn. I also wasn't very aggressive with the brake as I was braking early & not as hard as I could/should have. But I still had great fun. Here are vids of Session 2 & Session 3. Session 1 isn't worth showing bc I was in "recon mode" to relearn the track.

There’s really no need to trailer these cars. You can just drive them there air down the tires and go. Then just sit them back up for the trip home. This is essentially what they’re designed to do. Drive all week with the car seat in the back then drive it to the track & blow the doors off others on the weekends. When I’m going all out the car uses over a half a tank of gas per session.

 

[PL69]

There’s really no need to trailer these cars. You can just drive them there air down the tires and go. Then just sit them back up for the trip home. This is essentially what they’re designed to do. Drive all week with the car seat in the back then drive it to the track & blow the doors off others on the weekends. When I’m going all out the car uses over a half a tank of gas per session.

The Blackwings are the absolute dual duty track day cars. I drove 6 hours to Canadian Tire Motorsports Park, the next day did full day 7x 20min sessions, slept and drove 3.5 hours to Calabogie Mortorsports, next morning on track for a full day 7x 20min sessions, slept and next morning drove 4.5 hours home. I was way less fatigued than in my past BMWs and even my 718 GTS. My 3 track partners were all carrying there trailers and cars. (2x GT4 + 1x ZL1 1LE) driving there cars to the events was not an option for them. It was a walk in the park for me.

This was all done on 200tw tires and stock OEM brakes (they still have a full day left into them) I can't talk enaugh how impressed I am with this car. I like it so much I ordered a 24 to my specs.

 

[poor-sha]

I thought I’d save myself some hassle and drive my C8 to VIR. Blew the motor up on a Sunday afternoon and had a hell of a time getting a rental car so I could drive the 5 hours home. Luckily someone there was nice enough to deal with the tow truck coming for my C8 so I could get an Uber to South Boston before the rental car place closed.

I never go to the track without a trailer any more.

 

[PL69]

I thought I’d save myself some hassle and drive my C8 to VIR. Blew the motor up on a Sunday afternoon and had a hell of a time getting a rental car so I could drive the 5 hours home. Luckily someone there was nice enough to deal with the tow truck coming for my C8 so I could get an Uber to South Boston before the rental car place closed.

I never go to the track without a trailer any more.

There are probably thousands and thousands of track rats who never had an engine failure but I understand your point, any mechanical problem be it tires or anything else can be a huge headache vs just winching the b**** back on the trailer...

 

[Tall Steve]

I thought I’d save myself some hassle and drive my C8 to VIR. Blew the motor up on a Sunday afternoon and had a hell of a time getting a rental car so I could drive the 5 hours home. Luckily someone there was nice enough to deal with the tow truck coming for my C8 so I could get an Uber to South Boston before the rental car place closed.

I never go to the track without a trailer any more.

When I was rock crawling in my jeep I never went anywhere without my trailer.... I always expected damage and after a period of time my jeep was not "road" worthy because of mods..... My motto is if you have a trailer, take it!

 

[sonny200]

I thought I’d save myself some hassle and drive my C8 to VIR. Blew the motor up on a Sunday afternoon and had a hell of a time getting a rental car so I could drive the 5 hours home. Luckily someone there was nice enough to deal with the tow truck coming for my C8 so I could get an Uber to South Boston before the rental car place closed.

I never go to the track without a trailer any more.

In 2001, I totalled my DD Miata at VIR. Was a total PITA getting a U-Haul truck and trailer on a Sunday in Danville. For many years after that, I couldn't afford a trailer and still chanced going to the track with my DD. But once I had the means, I always trailered bc things can and will go wrong at some point. Most recently, I trailered my C8 HTC Stingray to CMP for a half day event in June. I literally used up the OEM brake pads to the backing plates. (I don't have the Z51 package bc it was on constraint when I placed my order.) Had I not trailered, I would not have been able to get home. Yes, the 4/5BW is a very capable track beast and DD that can easily go from one to the other with no mods. But a little extra insurance in the way of trailering to/from an event is worth it to me.