Spring Mountain impressions

[Tall Steve]

Any tips for people flying in to Vegas and renting a car? Looks like I can't fly out the day it ends, so I'm gonna spend a night somewhere and explore.

The wife and I are going to spend 3 day at the Bellagio doing nothing after leaving Spring Mountain.... I can't say more because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!

 

[M2Cto4BW]

Any tips for people flying in to Vegas and renting a car? Looks like I can't fly out the day it ends, so I'm gonna spend a night somewhere and explore.

If you're coming from a ways out and can add a day to make a long weekend out of it, I would highly recommend the following:

• take 95 up to Beatty have breakfast in the old school diner and then go to Rhyolite ghost town
• then 374 down to the Stovepipe Wells/Mesquite Sand Dunes, the dunes are incredible and go on forever, depending on time of year (ie. temperature) you can walk way out into them and it's like being on Tatooine
• then 190 down through Furnace Creek to Zabrieski Vista and Twenty Mule Team Canyon, the rock formations are something else and the 20 mule canyon is exactly what light off-roading with a rental car is for
• then back down to Vegas.

You can really pack in a ton of different things in a relatively speaking compact area, I've been through a couple times and I'm always impressed.

 

[Cuse44]

The wife and I are going to spend 3 day at the Bellagio doing nothing after leaving Spring Mountain.... I can't say more because what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!

You might need to forget about your paint chip

 

[Tall Steve]

View attachment 11492
You might need to forget about your paint chip

It will be repaired before I leave.......
There is always,

 

[Cuse44]

It will be repaired before I leave.......
There is always,
View attachment 11497

The generic name for Viagra = Mycoxafloppin

 

[Tall Steve]

The generic name for Viagra = Mycoxafloppin

 

[Powerhungry]

Background: I am by no means a track rat, but have done a few track days in the past 20 years. I don’t abuse them, but I run my cars relatively hard and I’m not shy about approaching my talent limits in a car (which do NOT approach the car’s limits). I’ve run out of talent many times!

For those of you on the fence or considering not taking advantage of the school, just do it. No matter what your driving experience/skill level, you will take away valuable knowledge about your car and be a better driver. Wonderful facility and terrific staff. Roughly 45 minutes outside Vegas and the drive is very easy with little traffic and nice scenery. Great group of students and I really enjoyed spending time with like-minded, good people. Condo accommodations were very nice.

Regarding the insurance deductible, the course comes with coverage for vehicle damage that caps your deductible/out of pocket at $10k in the event you wad the car up. (At least that was my understanding.) You have the opportunity to buy down the deductible to $2k for a $250 charge, which I elected to do. (My thought process was that this would be my opportunity to explore the limits with very little downside potential.) Well, with the track configuration when I just did the school, you really can’t hit anything. Yes, you can go off track, but you will be sliding in flat desert/dirt. You will not roll and I simply don’t see how you could realistically hit something. (I’m sure they do have configurations where going off track could involve a tire barrier, but for these classes I’m pretty sure they avoid setting it up that way.). Bottom line is that it’s cheap insurance, but even though I pushed it hard and was out of control many times in the 2 days, the most that would have happened to me would have been getting a rock in the bead or damaging a couple rims sliding into the dirt. The point is, you would REALLY have to screw up to have a huge incident. We’ve all seen the videos of someone coming out of a high speed sweeper and getting on the throttle too early, leaving the track at over 100mph and getting into the tire barrier sideways at 50mph, but that isn’t this track or configuration for the school. For me, I would not buy the deductible down if I did it again. Maybe buy some extra swag in their welcome center instead.

The school is a very good mix of classroom instruction, track time, autocross, launch control runs, parking lot exercise with sunshade in front window using your vision out the side of the car to look ahead for the next cone/apex, and wet “skid pad” braking exercise. I would have liked to replace the wet skid pad exercise and parking lot cone exercise with another couple track sessions. Although most seemed to really enjoy the autocross, I like the track time much better. That being said, track time is mentally and physically exhausting, so you can’t spend near as much time on the track as you may think before needing a break.

The school is appropriate for all skill levels, as they do a very good job of separating drivers into groups based on skill/speed. The instructors will let you go as fast as you can safely get around the track. This isn’t their first rodeo and they’ve seen it all.

In my group, only one other driver in a 5 had the manual. I‘m glad I ran the manual at Spring Mountain, but it will cost you several seconds per lap compared to the A10. (With the track configuration when I was there, 3 areas of the track required me to be in second gear to keep the instructor from running away on exit from a corner, which then resulted in a couple spots making another shift to third in an area that there was a lot going on. I felt the problem was magnified by the errors I made. The frustrating thing is you start to get to the point that you’re relatively happy with your pace and limiting the errors per lap only at the very last track session. Then you go home! At the end of the school, you feel like you could shave another couple second off your lap time with another few dozen “hot laps” of experience on the same track. It is very addicting.

I know there are several Spring Mountain threads, but hopefully somebody get’s some questions answered based on my impressions.

Again, take advantage of the Spring Mountain opportunity. You will not regret it.

Great post, @AZHEAT - thanks for sharing your experience! I just signed up for April 2023 and am looking forward to it! I am also thinking of NOT buying down the deductible. Would be good to hear what others have done in this regard as well....

 

[nashblackwing]

Great post, @AZHEAT - thanks for sharing your experience! I just signed up for April 2023 and am looking forward to it! I am also thinking of NOT buying down the deductible. Would be good to hear what others have done in this regard as well....

I haven’t read through this thread in a few months but why wouldn’t you buy down the deductible lol? We all have purchased $75k to $110k vehicles but $250 is too rich for our blood to hedge against an accident on the track? I don’t plan on being crazy on the track but I’d sure feel like a dummy paying an extra $8k bill because I was too cheap to pay $250. It wouldn’t take much of an accident to incur $10k in repairs. I’m going in March and I splurged on the $250.

 

[Powerhungry]

I haven’t read through this thread in a few months but why wouldn’t you buy down the deductible lol? We all have purchased $75k to $110k vehicles but $250 is too rich for our blood to hedge against an accident on the track? I don’t plan on being crazy on the track but I’d sure feel like a dummy paying an extra $8k bill because I was too cheap to pay $250. It wouldn’t take much of an accident to incur $10k in repairs. I’m going in March and I splurged on the $250.

Hmm...you do have a point. Need to noodle on this a bit more based on what other comment folks make here...

 

[Tall Steve]

On my first trip I purchased the buy down, but on my second trip I did not.. @nashblackwing is right about it being "cheap" insurance and if you can afford to purchase it I would.... My reason for not purchasing on my second trip is simple, I forgot, lol....... I never got myself in trouble on track but two guys in my group did spin out with no damage, but as mentioned it can add up quick if you send it in the sand/gravel with a bounce or two... My son spun it out in turn one at 70mph and did not hurt anything but I was not really worried because I had the "insurance"....

 

[Daijoubu]

I haven’t read through this thread in a few months but why wouldn’t you buy down the deductible lol? We all have purchased $75k to $110k vehicles but $250 is too rich for our blood to hedge against an accident on the track? I don’t plan on being crazy on the track but I’d sure feel like a dummy paying an extra $8k bill because I was too cheap to pay $250. It wouldn’t take much of an accident to incur $10k in repairs. I’m going in March and I splurged on the $250.

2 things that make you faster on track 1) skillz 2) track insurance

 

[Tall Steve]

2 things that make you faster on track 1) skillz 2) track insurance

It also takes..

 

[Berserker]

why wouldn’t you buy down the deductible

Hmm...you do have a point.

Car and Driver broke a suspension piece on their 4BW at Lightning Lap.

I attended about a dozen HPDE events as a participant or spectator. At two of those events a car got stuffed in a wall (one wound up on its roof).

The people who put on events like this do their best to make them safe. But cars get hurt at HPDE. People get hurt.

This isn't Disneyland, guys

 

[ClassaxV]

I sure hope not, Disney is dangerous, parents never survive the movies, and the parks... well How Many Deaths Have Happened at Disneyland?

 

[M2Cto4BW]

2 things that make you faster on track 1) skillz 2) track insurance

2a. money generally speaking 2b. a dedicated track beater
I like to watch track videos to get an idea of a circuit before going there and check what people do for light upgrades and fluids and the number of... IDK let's call them twats for lack of a better word... that post their 'versus videos' of them in a clapped out mk1 Miata or e36 passing a P car or some other $100k+ car is just so much slow-clap content.
Good for you buddy, that guy in his pride and joy, taking it somewhere he can legally drive it fast is just getting out of the way so you don't collect him trying to pass him into a corner when you're in a wave bye group and wants nothing to do with you. But ya you got him, smh

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

Car and Driver broke a suspension piece on their 4BW at Lightning Lap.

I attended about a dozen HPDE events as a participant or spectator. At two of those events a car got stuffed in a wall (one wound up on its roof).

The people who put on events like this do their best to make them safe. But cars get hurt at HPDE. People get hurt.

This isn't Disneyland, guys

I can see this being a pretty tough 'first event' for beginners because the limits of the Blackwing are so high. You could either be so timid as to get nowhere near the limits and learn nothing, or too confident and have a really high-speed incident. It's the instructor's job to keep you somewhere in between those two extremes and a lot depends on whether or not you listen to him/her. If you really want to get things off on the wrong foot, just say you have no track experience but you play lots of Gran Turismo so you're ready to rip things up

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

2a. money generally speaking 2b. a dedicated track beater
I like to watch track videos to get an idea of a circuit before going there and check what people do for light upgrades and fluids and the number of... IDK let's call them twats for lack of a better word... that post their 'versus videos' of them in a clapped out mk1 Miata or e36 passing a P car or some other $100k+ car is just so much slow-clap content.
Good for you buddy, that guy in his pride and joy, taking it somewhere he can legally drive it fast is just getting out of the way so you don't collect him trying to pass him into a corner when you're in a wave bye group and wants nothing to do with you. But ya you got him, smh

AH! My pet peeve. Similar to the experienced Miata driver that's tired of being a moving chicane when they move up to the advanced group, so they drop down to beginner and then start to complain about all the dumbasses in high-end cars holding him up. If it were remotely feasible I'd be in favor of track days or run groups based on car classification as well as driver experience.

 

[Berserker]

the experienced Miata driver

Miatas are a particularly vexxing vehicle.

Back when I did track days, a Miata with some suspension work and track tires (basically, "Spec Miata" upgrades) would be one of the fastest things in corners and probably the slowest thing in a straight line.

I was in run groups at TWS where my Evo was faster than a guy in Vette Z06 and slower than a guy in a Miata. I had trouble getting around the Vette because he would park it in the corners and then put the hammer down in the straights. And had trouble keeping up with the Miata because he just did not slow down at all for the corners.

a clapped out mk1 Miata or e36 passing a P car or some other $100k+ car is just so much slow-clap content.
Good for you buddy, that guy in his pride and joy, taking it somewhere he can legally drive it fast

To be fair, if the $100k car guy was actually "driving it fast" that E36 would not be troubling him.

There are a lot of car owners at HPDEs who don't understand the difference between having a fast car and being a fast driver. They buy a BMW, do the Dinan upgrades, sit in the pits talking about how much power their car makes, then go out on track and park it in the corners and drop the hammer on the straights and think they are driving gods. They have no interest in actually learning to drive.

One of the things I like about the Spring Mountain curriculum is that they do a bunch of different exercises that actually seem to be geared towards trying to teach people how to drive.

 

[ClassaxV]

AH! My pet peeve. Similar to the experienced Miata driver that's tired of being a moving chicane when they move up to the advanced group, so they drop down to beginner and then start to complain about all the dumbasses in high-end cars holding him up. If it were remotely feasible I'd be in favor of track days or run groups based on car classification as well as driver experience.

Track is just like the rest of life, you will always have a mix of folks with more dollars than sense and the skill vs equipment problems just continue the more congested the grid.

Incremental increases in performance/risk and respect for others is the most important. If I do something to break my equipment, get myself hurt or otherwise ruin my experience that day at the track, I have the rest of my life to make it right. If I do something to break someone else's equipment, get them hurt or otherwise ruin their track experience there is practically no ability to recover that for them.

You have to have a big enough ego or testicular fortitude to put the other guys lives ahead of your own while your attempting to beat them....

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

You have to have a big enough ego or testicular fortitude to put the other guys lives ahead of your own while your attempting to beat them....

You nailed it - unless it's wheel-to-wheel racing at a track day you're not supposed to be trying to beat anyone.

Toxic ego example 1:
Absolute beginners in high-dollar machinery that can't drive actively refusing to let people pass, trying to race, etc. Not there to learn anything, just to show off.

Toxic ego example 2:
Good enough drivers hanging out in beginner groups because they're not quite quick enough to hang with the fast guys, but drive too aggressively and bitch about the beginners being d-bags because they're not getting point-bys.

Take-away:
Not everyone in a fast/expensive car (especially in a beginner group) should be assumed to be a d-bag; it's possible that this person has got tunnel vision just trying to figure out their lines. Both toxic ego examples make HPDE events suck although I do take your point that example 1 is more dangerous; any well-run track event tends to eject these guys pretty quickly.