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ClassaxV said:
Looks are always subjective, and fashion trends change with the times, but the factors that make a performance car a great driver's car have remained a fair constant. I like the fact that the 4BW is in many ways stipped down to the essence of a great driver's experience and less about all the techno gadgetry that really has little to do with actually operating the car at a high level of performance.

So yea I totally agree, and hope GM stays the course.
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One of the main reasons I decided to buy a Blackwing was my dream M cars have gone away from physical buttons to a massive iPad across the dash. Doesn’t even look properly integrated. It’s nice to actually be able to turn on ac or adjust heated seats without having to click multiple times to get to it.
 
Deneed4spd said:
One of the main reasons I decided to buy a Blackwing was my dream M cars have gone away from physical buttons to a massive iPad across the dash. Doesn’t even look properly integrated. It’s nice to actually be able to turn on ac or adjust heated seats without having to click multiple times to get to it.
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You are absolutely right about that. The new screen is hideous, primarily as there is 0 attempt to integrate it into the dash. It simply looks stuck on.

As a 2022 M4 owner, I could never go from a near perfect interior to the newer style.

That said, the big bonus of the Blackwing is superb driving character. It will make you smile while driving. My M4 did not. It did have the banging interior, but I was after the driving character. Blackwing all day baby!
 

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Purely from an economic POV, how can you fault the trajectory of BMW in the last 20 years? I will jump in early before I even make my point and say I am NOT a BMW fanboi, I think it sucks what they have become.

Their path has been starting as a niche euro brand that hangs its hat on performance drivers cars and makes some dam good ones for decades. Once that reputation is firmly established, accountants recommend they start to go after a much broader market that wants to virtue signal as an auto enthusiast but is mostly interested in projecting a successful career and thus a softer car that sacrifices performance becomes reality. Most drivers are not interested in BW performance, and with the cost to create such a rig, it's fully understandable why there was this migration at BMW

I don't fault anyone that bought something M expecting greatness, even the magazines are finally figuring out the playbook.

I thank god everyday that I was born in America and follow that up with an appreciation that GM invested in the BW. No one is doing this today, !!VIVA Cadillac BW!!
 
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jbawden said:
Purely from an economic POV, how can you fault the trajectory of BMW in the last 20 years? ...

Their path has been starting as a niche euro brand that hangs its hat on performance drivers cars and makes some dam good ones for decades. Once that reputation is firmly established, accountants recommend they start to go after a much broader market ...
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Subaru has played the same game. Pursuing market share while increasingly disappointing the core markets that made it popular to begin with.

But every car maker can't expand indefinitely.

So is it a better long-term strategy to lock in a smaller market who loves you, or have a larger market where your customers are going to start cross-shopping some of your offerings against Toyota?

Remember Mitsubishi? Back circa 2000 they had amazing vehicle lineup. They had the AWD DSM cars that the yoots loved, a nice near-luxury sedan, a pickup, two different legit 4x4 SUV offerings, and a varity of other stuff. And that was all before they brought over the Evo.

Then they aggressively pursued market share - and damn near destroyed themselves.

I myself drove Mitsubishis for 12 straight years. I'll never buy another one.

I then drove Subarus for 6 years. Now they sell nothing I want.
 
Berserker said:
I then drove Subarus for 6 years. Now they sell nothing I want.
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I don't disagree with your assessment of most of Subaru's line-up, but the BRZ is a blast to drive. I realize that it may not be your cup of tea but from my point of view I would I would amend your statement to say that they sell *almost* nothing I want. :)
 
bloominguez said:
I don't disagree with your assessment of most of Subaru's line-up, but the BRZ is a blast to drive. ... I would amend your statement to say that they sell *almost* nothing I want. :)
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My first draft actually did have an "except maybe the BRZ" qualification, LOL.

But the BRZ is on the table, maybe, only because of the new engine. Tuning on the old engine would have been a deal-breaker. I kept my '17 WRX less than a year because of the engine.

All that said, I'd only get that class of car as a dedicated track toy because they are so much cheaper to run than heavier high horsepower cars. And in that class I'd probably opt for a Miata RF.

If Subaru put a 300 hp turbo in the BRZ I would probably already have one. If they made a newer version of the old Legacy GT Wagon I would probably already have one. If they made a lightweight offroad vehicle with true 4x4, like the old Brat, I would probably already have one. If the WRX STI had benefited from two decades of horsepower improvements, like the Mustang GT it used to thoroughly stomp, I would probably still have one.

Which is really the point I was making. They used to make several models that interested me. Now the only thing they make that is vaguely interesting is the BRZ. And good as the BRZ is, it is not nearly as good as it could be.

And Subaru doesn't care that they lost me as a customer because their sales are doing so well in America.
 
Berserker said:
My first draft actually did have an "except maybe the BRZ" qualification, LOL.

But the BRZ is on the table, maybe, only because of the new engine. Tuning on the old engine would have been a deal-breaker. I kept my '17 WRX less than a year because of the engine.

All that said, I'd only get that class of car as a dedicated track toy because they are so much cheaper to run than heavier high horsepower cars. And in that class I'd probably opt for a Miata RF.

If Subaru put a 300 hp turbo in the BRZ I would probably already have one. If they made a newer version of the old Legacy GT Wagon I would probably already have one. If they made a lightweight offroad vehicle with true 4x4, like the old Brat, I would probably already have one. If the WRX STI had benefited from two decades of horsepower improvements, like the Mustang GT it used to thoroughly stomp, I would probably still have one.

Which is really the point I was making. They used to make several models that interested me. Now the only thing they make that is vaguely interesting is the BRZ. And good as the BRZ is, it is not nearly as good as it could be.

And Subaru doesn't care that they lost me as a customer because their sales are doing so well in America.
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The new WRX is gash. It could be the performer of the year and it's so frickin ugly, I just couldn't.
It defeats the purpose I know, but if the BRZ/86 had just a bit bigger trunk, so it could truly be a 1 car garage option I'd happily have it, but unfortunately not quite.

I will do a couple trackdays (or plan to in the 4BW) but for sure I'd like to have a BRZ or Veloster N for cheap and cheerful track fun.
 
Berserker said:
My first draft actually did have an "except maybe the BRZ" qualification, LOL.

But the BRZ is on the table, maybe, only because of the new engine. Tuning on the old engine would have been a deal-breaker. I kept my '17 WRX less than a year because of the engine.

All that said, I'd only get that class of car as a dedicated track toy because they are so much cheaper to run than heavier high horsepower cars. And in that class I'd probably opt for a Miata RF.

If Subaru put a 300 hp turbo in the BRZ I would probably already have one. If they made a newer version of the old Legacy GT Wagon I would probably already have one. If they made a lightweight offroad vehicle with true 4x4, like the old Brat, I would probably already have one. If the WRX STI had benefited from two decades of horsepower improvements, like the Mustang GT it used to thoroughly stomp, I would probably still have one.

Which is really the point I was making. They used to make several models that interested me. Now the only thing they make that is vaguely interesting is the BRZ. And good as the BRZ is, it is not nearly as good as it could be.

And Subaru doesn't care that they lost me as a customer because their sales are doing so well in America.
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I don't know, I had a chance to drive the old version of the BRZ extensively and I loved it. Yeah, the engine wasn't perfect, the "torque dip," everyone knows that. Still a blast.

In the BRZ I would be perfectly happy *without* a turbo. The new engine is perfect, my opinion, especially at that price point. Keeping it as simple and light and cheap as possible works for me. That's the character of the car. I like it exactly as it is. Not that they (Toyota + Subaru) would go for more hp and a higher price point anyway, given the presence of the Supra in Toyota's line-up.
 
M2Cto4BW said:
The new WRX is gash.
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Like everyone my age who grew up where I did, I've got a real soft spot for WRX's (especially blue with gold wheels ... going flat out) but man, what were they thinking! Just another opportunity to say that I really appreciate how restrained GM/Cadillac have been with our cars given what everyone else is up to!

97wrcsub3.jpeg
 
i just came to say that i am also a subaru fanboi.. Have had 3 STI's over the past 15 years and currently have a '13 hatch as the winter beater.. It's likely I will always own a turbo subaru.

The roar and whine of a supercharged american v8 is one of the few sounds that piques my ears more than the boxer rumble.
 
Tall Steve said:
My son is saving up to get a new BRZ.... I don't know to much about them but they look like a cool car...
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It's a "pure" sports car. The only legit Miata competitor I know of (excluding that Miata-based Fiat abomination).

It's bigger, with a back "seat". Juuust over 400 lbs heavier than a Miata RF. But "big" is relative. It's still 200 lbs lighter than a base Cayman.

More power than a Miata. The new one drops into the 13s in the quarter mile, which is respectable. At this year's Lightning Lap it was 4.8s faster than the Miata RF they tested in 2019.

Can be had with Brembos.

With a 300 hp turbo this thing would stack up very nicely against a base Cayman.

As it is, it is still one of the great sports cars available today.
 
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ClassaxV said:


Ouch!

It's hard to determine some of the baseline upon which they are drawing their numbers.
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I believe it. The amount of misalignment of sheet metal, I had portion of my headliner not clipped in properly. Paint is subpar. For a low volume BW car the number of engines that have had problems percent wise even for the subset of owners here. One could see why it would get so low of a rating. Funny how many of us say we came to caddy to get away from bmw or Audi unreliability. Good thing we have a long warranty. I’m keeping mine forever and hope the cost to fix things is lower than euro counterpart. Although if you wrench it yourself, euro cars aren’t that much more than a domestic or Asian counterpart.
 
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