Blackwing alignment

[Grainofsand]

Has anyone done their own alignment on their blackwing? I noticed that the track alignment on the 4BW at Spring Mountain handled noticeably different from my factory 4BW. I want to be able to make adjustments from my garage.

 

[rdollie]

Following. I have the equipment to measure toe and camber adjustments for my 5BW but haven't done it yet (looks straightforward from the YouTube video - famous last words!)

 

[frankfast97]

yes...i did track alignment. turn in is way crisper but it definitely moves around on you more

 

[BimmerFan]

I took my new-to-me C5 Z06 to the tire store after I bought it for a "track alignment" the day before I was scheduled for a weekend at VIR. It was so darty, I couldn't drive it on the track at more than 90 MPH. The tech thought I was going to autocross it, so he gave it a lot of toe-in. I set it up in the paddock using nothing more than a guess and a prayer. It was fine after that, and I've since done toe adjustments on other cars simply by moving it in (or out) a small amount, driving, and seeing how it felt. For camber (I didn't realize that our cars had adjustable camber, that's awesome!) I'd probably have a shop do it. Just because it's a little more difficult. And I'm borderline incompetent.

So, now that I've told my little story...

I have only 1000 miles on my BW, but it does seem to return to center much stronger than I'm used to, which makes me think that it has a smidgen more toe-out than I'm used to. Which is why it's so stable at speed. Everything is a trade-off.

I'd like to know what they do at (settings) at SM versus factory.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

@poor-sha has a video about doing the alignment on his 5BW.

Pretty sure this is his video...

 

[poor-sha]

Thanks. I’ve aligned mine three times now. I’m now using the CSM hub stands which are phenomenal, albeit expensive.

 

[BimmerFan]

Thanks. I’ve aligned mine three times now. I’m now using the CSM hub stands which are phenomenal, albeit expensive.

View attachment 22555

Oh yeah! Lovin' the garage my friend! We are friends, aren't we? Why don't you invite me over more often?

 

[Tall Steve]

 

[sicoo]

I took my new-to-me C5 Z06 to the tire store after I bought it for a "track alignment" the day before I was scheduled for a weekend at VIR. It was so darty, I couldn't drive it on the track at more than 90 MPH. The tech thought I was going to autocross it, so he gave it a lot of toe-in. I set it up in the paddock using nothing more than a guess and a prayer. It was fine after that, and I've since done toe adjustments on other cars simply by moving it in (or out) a small amount, driving, and seeing how it felt. For camber (I didn't realize that our cars had adjustable camber, that's awesome!) I'd probably have a shop do it. Just because it's a little more difficult. And I'm borderline incompetent.

So, now that I've told my little story...

I have only 1000 miles on my BW, but it does seem to return to center much stronger than I'm used to, which makes me think that it has a smidgen more toe-out than I'm used to. Which is why it's so stable at speed. Everything is a trade-off.

I'd like to know what they do at (settings) at SM versus factory.

I'm pretty sure you have your toe in and out reversed.

Toe-in increases self centering and straight line stability, at the expense of turn in.

Toe-out increases agility/ turn in, but makes it more difficult to go straight, especially as speeds increase.

Almost all street cars are set with slight toe-in, although some FWD cars spec neutral toe because they naturally toe-in under power.

 

[99sport]

I'm pretty sure you have your toe in and out reversed.

Toe-in increases self centering and straight line stability, at the expense of turn in.

Toe-out increases agility/ turn in, but makes it more difficult to go straight, especially as speeds increase.

Almost all street cars are set with slight toe-in, although some FWD cars spec neutral toe because they naturally toe-in under power.

Agree. The recommended autocross alignment for my Miata had toe out for better "turn in." It was miserable on the street so I returned to toe in.

All my autocross cars are set for max negative camber (with. 5 degree more in the rear than front, but those cars are double wishbone, and the blackwings have front struts, which have terrible (ie the wrong direction) camber gain - hence why blackwings get more negative camber in the front vs rear). Then as much caster as possible without sacrificing negative camber (not adjustable on the blackwing strut suspension). And factory toe settings.

In my experience, it's the toe settings that eat tires and make the car miserable to drive on the street

 

[BimmerFan]

I'm pretty sure you have your toe in and out reversed.

Thanks. Hey, I had a 50-50 chance, right? LOL

Back when I was a wee tot, I had my own business and so I had to file corporate tax returns, so I got an accountant to do them for me. He said "prepare a trial balance for me" and since I took 2.5 semesters of accounting in college, I knew exactly what he needed. I be edicated.

When I brought it to him, he looks it over for a few minutes and then kind of confused, he says "you got the debits and credits backwards."

So, hey, I'm consistent.

 

[Barstoolman1127]

Most of the old farts on this forum would have trouble changing a tire, never mind adjusting camber and toe-in/toe-out

 

[Tall Steve]

Most of the old farts on this forum would have trouble changing a tire, never mind adjusting camber and toe-in/toe-out

My hands are too soft, smooth and clean to do work like that!

 

[shbox]

Most of the old farts on this forum would have trouble changing a tire, never mind adjusting camber and toe-in/toe-out

Don't know about that. The older folks are used to having to work on stuff and not afraid to get their hands dirty.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Most of the old farts on this forum would have trouble changing a tire, never mind adjusting camber and toe-in/toe-out

Are you kidding? My 25, 21 and 20 yr old kids had to learn to drive a stick, change a tire, check their oil, etc before I would let them get their DLs.

Can't tell you how many times in the last few years they tell me they are the only one of their friends who know how to do any of that stuff. Last month, my 21-yr old daughter rescued her BF who had a flat and he had no idea he even had a spare, forget actually changing it.

Old guys rule.

 

[bloominguez]

Are you kidding? My 25, 21 and 20 yr old kids had to learn to drive a stick, change a tire, check their oil, etc before I would let them get their DLs.

Can't tell you how many times in the last few years they tell me they are the only one of their friends who know how to do any of that stuff. Last month, my 21-yr old daughter rescued her BF who had a flat and he had no idea he even had a spare, forget actually changing it.

Old guys rule.

Completely agree. This is a great picture of one of my daughters "helping" to change the oil. I let her have my old Integra during college (and still for a while until she gets her new GR 86) on the condition that she knows how to maintain it. Also had to know how to drive a manual transmission. She has a lot of fun with the fact that she can drive a MT and many male friends cannot.

 

[CaddyTrack]

For reference, I encourage my kids to help me anytime auto work is being done in my house, which is frequently.

Getting the thread back on track:
Got a new tool delivered this week from Homedepot Buy One Get One tool deal. I am a big fan of Ridgid Tools (also love that pun every time). RIDGID 18V Brushless Cordless 4-Mode 1/2 in. High-Torque Impact Wrench Kit with (2) 4.0 Ah Lithium-Ion Batteries and Charger R86212KSB - The Home Depot

I took about an hour today to: lift the BW (QJ6000ELX), remove the front wheels/tires, loosen the camber adjuster bolts, tilt, retighten and torque, replace wheels and tires, lower and torque lugnuts.

Drive quality is fantastic, and feels . I wish I did it 19,000 miles ago.

I did this adjustment only on the front, leaving the rear stock. Reason being the 1st set of rear tires wore prematurely on the inner portion of the tire(14k miles - got Michelin to credit for warranty -15k for staggered rears, 30k for fronts). The front, however, have been wearing on the outer edge of the tire. With my driving style, this adjustment made the most sense to me. I will see how much longer the 1st set of front tires lasts, though doubtful they will last the full life of the 2nd set of rears.

 

[poor-sha]

Did you measure and adjust the toe? Changing the camber will change the toe as well. Having the toe wrong will accelerate tire wear far more than camber since it will be constantly scrubbing.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Learned this lesson the hard way with camber plates on my SS 1LE. Sure it made it uber easy to change camber track-side, but there was no easy way to adjust the toe as a result of the new camber.

 

[CaddyTrack]

Did you measure and adjust the toe? Changing the camber will change the toe as well. Having the toe wrong will accelerate tire wear far more than camber since it will be constantly scrubbing.

Hrm, no. I suppose that requires measuring stuff with measuring tools I don't have. Unless you have some good DIY advice to get this done, I suppose I'll be bringing it in to tire shop and pay for an alignment.

Damnit my gung-ho-ness. Thank you forum folks for you support.