Anyone switch from a V8 AMG to a CT5 Blackwing?

[ukcats12]

Back in 2020 I bought a C63S coupe for a weekend driver. Missed the manual transmission so I bought a 1995 M3 last year and currently have both cars. When I'm driving the M3 I'm missing the power of the AMG, and when I'm driving the AMG I'm missing the engagement of the manual.

I'm currently contemplating selling both and getting a CT5 Blackwing. Anyone here move from a "more refined" German competitor into a Blackwing? The interior does seem to be a bit of a knock against the car, but does anyone really notice when you're really driving the car the way it's intended? And there's definitely more of a "cool factor" around the AMG, at least in my opinion.

Anyone here make a similar trade?

 

[1Evil55]

Had an '18 S63 coupe AMG. Interiors quality germany wins. Looks and compliments germany wins. Overall performance? Germany who?

 

[ernsteeng]

I had a 2013 535i m sport edition with a manual transmission. I prefer the interior of the bw from the bmw but that could be due to being 10 years newer. Both are nice and I prefer the updates of the bw. Power, performance, handling etc - bw hands down for me.

 

[ukcats12]

Had an '18 S63 coupe AMG. Interiors quality germany wins. Looks and compliments germany wins. Overall performance? Germany who?

Any issues with rattles and creaking with the interior? One of the thing that drives me mad with my C63. Seems like every single part of the interior rattles and creaks.

 

[Exia]

I did not own a V8 AMG, however I did own another German competitor, a 2022 M3 Competition xDrive.

The interior is definitely worse in the Caddy as far as materials go, mostly the armrests and dashboard leather material is equivalent to a 50k vehicle, the seats are lovely though and you do get carbon fiber free of charge in the center console and doors. BMW wanted extra for this.

The big thing about German V8's, at least modern one's, are they don't sound amazing. All the turbos muffle the shit out of the exhaust, the C 63 fares better but its still doesn't scream like an LT4. However the LT4 in the Blackwing only sounds amazing on the outside, you know where you aren't driving the car. The vehicle rides better and has sound deadening equivalent to a modern German vehicle and hearing that V8 roar is a step above a turbo German V8, but only a little bit inside the vehicle, its not as loud as I wish it was but thats just my opinion. LT4 > every German engine on sale today that isn't a 4L Flat 6 from Porsche.

As far as I'm concerned, the Blackwing wins in every metric over the Germans except fuel economy and interior materials. You say AMG is cooler, cooler to who? people who know what a C 63 is or an M5 probably also know what a Blackwing is, AMG or M, the brand has been watered down so much this last decade I don't know how anyone can think its cool.

If someone compliments your German AMG/M car it might be genuine, it also might be they see a badge and just associate that with great, but don't know anything else. Someone compliments your Blackwing, thats genuine, I'd also say its a very handsome looking sedan. A Blackwing is PEAK, "if you know, you know".

You see a Blackwing though...a MANUAL to boot, well, I think thats the coolest sedan on sale today. Defiantly cooler then a run of the mill AMG.

A Blackwing is 70% of the German car in terms of interior quality, 130% the German car in terms of driving dynamics, 120% the German car in terms of sound (interior) and 200% of the sound on the exterior, 120% the German car in terms of ride quality (Magride 4.0 is amazing) and 70% of the cost.

Oh, it also has a better warranty and doesn't lose 50% of its value in 4 years along with some painful repair costs down the road which is great if you want to keep it long term.

If you don't care about what badge is on the hood and you don't plan to put winter tires on it and you are fully aware that the interior quality won't be as nice as an equivalent German car, you will not be disappointment (except maybe wanting more interior cabin exhaust noise).

 

[rubberduck]

I sold my AMG E53, I6 turbo to step into a 5BW. Keeping both was not a option or I likely would have. But with only the one, the 5BW is so much funner by a gigantic margin. Interestingly I was eying an S580 to replace the E53 right before I found the Caddy.

 

[white98ls]

If someone compliments your German AMG/M car it might be genuine, it also might be they see a badge and just associate that with great, but don't know anything else. Someone compliments your Blackwing, thats genuine, I'd also say its a very handsome looking sedan. A Blackwing is PEAK, "if you know, you know".

You see a Blackwing though...a MANUAL to boot, well, I think thats the coolest sedan on sale today. Defiantly cooler then a run of the mill AMG.

A Blackwing is 70% of the German car in terms of interior quality, 130% the German car in terms of driving dynamics, 120% the German car in terms of sound, and 120% the German car in terms of ride quality (Magride 4.0 is amazing) and 70% of the cost.

Oh, it also has a better warranty and doesn't lose 50% of its value in 4 years along with some painful repair costs down the road which is great if you want to keep it long term.

Very well put. Even here in the SF Bay Area, I have only ever seen ONE other 5BW whereas I'll see a new M5 or E63 every week. Most people don't know what the hell a Blackwing is, but if 1) they're a true car nut, or 2) they hear the thing, they freak out and know it's something truly special.

I had my heart set on an E63 Wagon before the Blackwing came out. Eventually test drove one and while it didn't disappoint me, it also didn't get under my skin like the Blackwing did. The driving dynamics, manual, and general attitude about the Blackwing make it much more memorable.

While the interior of the E63 was certainly much nicer and "fancier", for me this is a family car which includes my kid, so the Blackwing is already almost "too nice". What I DO appreciate over the Germans is the usefulness of the technology. Instead of touch-sensitive "buttons" on the steering wheel, color-changing mood lighting, and speakers that needlessly move up and down when you start the car (you know, "fancy" stuff), the Blackwing's tech is actually useful and appreciated day to day. The rear camera mirror that's super-high res and eliminates blind spots, the wireless Apple/Android connectivity, the hard buttons for all HVAC and most driver assistance features, the quick and responsive touchscreen... the stuff just works, and that's more meaningful to me.

Oh and yeah, the ride IS way better and it won't depreciate like a rock a la the Germans. And I wasn't looking forward to owning a Mercedes air suspension and turbo V8 out of warranty...

 

[dribs15]

I did not own a V8 AMG, however I did own another German competitor, a 2022 M3 Competition xDrive.

The interior is definitely worse in the Caddy as far as materials go, mostly the armrests and dashboard leather material is equivalent to a 50k vehicle, the seats are lovely though and you do get carbon fiber free of charge in the center console and doors. BMW wanted extra for this.

The big thing about German V8's, at least modern one's, are they don't sound amazing. All the turbos muffle the shit out of the exhaust, the C 63 fares better but its still doesn't scream like an LT4. However the LT4 in the Blackwing only sounds amazing on the outside, you know where you aren't driving the car. The vehicle rides better and has sound deadening equivalent to a modern German vehicle and hearing that V8 roar is a step above a turbo German V8, but only a little bit inside the vehicle, its not as loud as I wish it was but thats just my opinion. LT4 > every German engine on sale today that isn't a 4L Flat 6 from Porsche.

As far as I'm concerned, the Blackwing wins in every metric over the Germans except fuel economy and interior materials. You say AMG is cooler, cooler to who? people who know what a C 63 is or an M5 probably also know what a Blackwing is, AMG or M, the brand has been watered down so much this last decade I don't know how anyone can think its cool.

If someone compliments your German AMG/M car it might be genuine, it also might be they see a badge and just associate that with great, but don't know anything else. Someone compliments your Blackwing, thats genuine, I'd also say its a very handsome looking sedan. A Blackwing is PEAK, "if you know, you know".

You see a Blackwing though...a MANUAL to boot, well, I think thats the coolest sedan on sale today. Defiantly cooler then a run of the mill AMG.

A Blackwing is 70% of the German car in terms of interior quality, 130% the German car in terms of driving dynamics, 120% the German car in terms of sound (interior) and 200% of the sound on the exterior, 120% the German car in terms of ride quality (Magride 4.0 is amazing) and 70% of the cost.

Oh, it also has a better warranty and doesn't lose 50% of its value in 4 years along with some painful repair costs down the road which is great if you want to keep it long term.

If you don't care about what badge is on the hood and you don't plan to put winter tires on it and you are fully aware that the interior quality won't be as nice as an equivalent German car, you will not be disappointment (except maybe wanting more interior cabin exhaust noise).

... as someone suggested (and I tried it) ... if you fold down the rear seats you'll hear that exhaust much louder

 

[jbawden]

BW anecdote: My wife and girls were down in Walnut Creek last weekend and a 5BW rolled by...they freaked out and called me. As @Exia said, high-end German could easily take the "CA Camry" title away from Tesla here in the bay area.

I would appreciate a nicer interior, but I don't feel the BW is necessarily lacking. You're missing the point if you skip a BW because it doesn't look like an Audi inside. To the OP, if you want AMG+ power with a manual, and driving dynamics that smash both, the BW is a no brainer. The car is amazing to drive and mine at least is 100% free of jiggles, rattles, or NVH...in fact its too quiet inside!

 

[1Evil55]

Any issues with rattles and creaking with the interior? One of the thing that drives me mad with my C63. Seems like every single part of the interior rattles and creaks.

The first 15,000 were quiet but quickly started to change. In fact my SS was quieter related to squeeks with 100k on the clock.

 

[theprototype]

I sold my 18 c63s coupe for my blackwing. Definitely miss the amg sound the most. Had a cat delete and track exhaust and I don’t think I’ll ever attain that level of audio glory again in my life.

 

[rubberduck]

Any issues with rattles and creaking with the interior? One of the thing that drives me mad with my C63. Seems like every single part of the interior rattles and creaks.

My E53 also had a good amount on interior rattles. I think the underlying problem is they use the same interior panels for the AMGs as they do with the MB models and the AMGs have a harsher suspension. I ended up taking apart most of the door panels and headliner and fixed most of them. The dealer is useless for most of this because they just won't put in the time for a warranty repair that is largely aesthetic.

The only real "noise" issue I have with my 5BW is the documented airflow related buzzing above around 60mph on the passenger side A-pillar/side window area. I have not had it into the dealer yet. I plan to do some tape testing on the doors and front windshield first to try to narrow down the problem for them. - That's my best chance for success when I bring it in.

 

[Powerhungry]

I did not own a V8 AMG, however I did own another German competitor, a 2022 M3 Competition xDrive.

The interior is definitely worse in the Caddy as far as materials go, mostly the armrests and dashboard leather material is equivalent to a 50k vehicle, the seats are lovely though and you do get carbon fiber free of charge in the center console and doors. BMW wanted extra for this.

The big thing about German V8's, at least modern one's, are they don't sound amazing. All the turbos muffle the shit out of the exhaust, the C 63 fares better but its still doesn't scream like an LT4. However the LT4 in the Blackwing only sounds amazing on the outside, you know where you aren't driving the car. The vehicle rides better and has sound deadening equivalent to a modern German vehicle and hearing that V8 roar is a step above a turbo German V8, but only a little bit inside the vehicle, its not as loud as I wish it was but thats just my opinion. LT4 > every German engine on sale today that isn't a 4L Flat 6 from Porsche.

As far as I'm concerned, the Blackwing wins in every metric over the Germans except fuel economy and interior materials. You say AMG is cooler, cooler to who? people who know what a C 63 is or an M5 probably also know what a Blackwing is, AMG or M, the brand has been watered down so much this last decade I don't know how anyone can think its cool.

If someone compliments your German AMG/M car it might be genuine, it also might be they see a badge and just associate that with great, but don't know anything else. Someone compliments your Blackwing, thats genuine, I'd also say its a very handsome looking sedan. A Blackwing is PEAK, "if you know, you know".

You see a Blackwing though...a MANUAL to boot, well, I think thats the coolest sedan on sale today. Defiantly cooler then a run of the mill AMG.

A Blackwing is 70% of the German car in terms of interior quality, 130% the German car in terms of driving dynamics, 120% the German car in terms of sound (interior) and 200% of the sound on the exterior, 120% the German car in terms of ride quality (Magride 4.0 is amazing) and 70% of the cost.

Oh, it also has a better warranty and doesn't lose 50% of its value in 4 years along with some painful repair costs down the road which is great if you want to keep it long term.

If you don't care about what badge is on the hood and you don't plan to put winter tires on it and you are fully aware that the interior quality won't be as nice as an equivalent German car, you will not be disappointment (except maybe wanting more interior cabin exhaust noise).

 

[Powerhungry]

Great analysis, @Exia. I have not owned an AMG or M, but let me just say that there's only one that's been called the greatest sports sedan EVER made (by Car and Driver, and others). And that's the 5BW, 6MT. Case closed.

 

[Exia]

Great analysis, @Exia. I have not owned an AMG or M, but let me just say that there's only one that's been called the greatest sports sedan EVER made (by Car and Driver, and others). And that's the 5BW, 6MT. Case closed.

Hah, I know there's a few sport sedans to potentially achieve that title but as far as modern cars go (the last 10 years) the 5BW manual is basically in a dead heat for first place against the M5 CS, according to a few people and publications but the M5 costs 50k more and doesn't have a manual so for many people its an easy decision.

Every other sedan ever made comes second.

 

[MookdocOE]

Any issues with rattles and creaking with the interior? One of the thing that drives me mad with my C63. Seems like every single part of the interior rattles and creaks.

Really? I think you should honestly look at the "German" brands a little closer and then look at the Cadillac closer too. Only ones buying the German are the ones looking for the look because it's German? Unless of course you enjoy the maintenance costs and other stupid costs associated with the German brands.....

 

[MookdocOE]

Hah, I know there's a few sport sedans to potentially achieve that title but as far as modern cars go (the last 10 years) the 5BW manual is basically in a dead heat for first place against the M5 CS, according to a few people and publications but the M5 costs 50k more and doesn't have a manual so for many people its an easy decision.

Every other sedan ever made comes second.

It also unequivocally drives like @ss....so why would anybody pay that difference?

 

[MookdocOE]

Somebody show my a car that can be daily driven by my mother and drop a time on VIR that is equivalent to 2 door so called "supercars" from years past? Anybody>

 

[MookdocOE]

Somebody show my a car that can be daily driven by my mother and drop a time on VIR that is equivalent to 2 door so called "supercars" from years past? Anybody>

Oh and it's 50k less than others along with 4doors and 21mpgs @ 70mph.......Lord hit the V button and all Hell breaks loose.......I ain't selling mine Period!

 

[MookdocOE]

I did not own a V8 AMG, however I did own another German competitor, a 2022 M3 Competition xDrive.

The interior is definitely worse in the Caddy as far as materials go, mostly the armrests and dashboard leather material is equivalent to a 50k vehicle, the seats are lovely though and you do get carbon fiber free of charge in the center console and doors. BMW wanted extra for this.

The big thing about German V8's, at least modern one's, are they don't sound amazing. All the turbos muffle the shit out of the exhaust, the C 63 fares better but its still doesn't scream like an LT4. However the LT4 in the Blackwing only sounds amazing on the outside, you know where you aren't driving the car. The vehicle rides better and has sound deadening equivalent to a modern German vehicle and hearing that V8 roar is a step above a turbo German V8, but only a little bit inside the vehicle, its not as loud as I wish it was but thats just my opinion. LT4 > every German engine on sale today that isn't a 4L Flat 6 from Porsche.

As far as I'm concerned, the Blackwing wins in every metric over the Germans except fuel economy and interior materials. You say AMG is cooler, cooler to who? people who know what a C 63 is or an M5 probably also know what a Blackwing is, AMG or M, the brand has been watered down so much this last decade I don't know how anyone can think its cool.

If someone compliments your German AMG/M car it might be genuine, it also might be they see a badge and just associate that with great, but don't know anything else. Someone compliments your Blackwing, thats genuine, I'd also say its a very handsome looking sedan. A Blackwing is PEAK, "if you know, you know".

You see a Blackwing though...a MANUAL to boot, well, I think thats the coolest sedan on sale today. Defiantly cooler then a run of the mill AMG.

A Blackwing is 70% of the German car in terms of interior quality, 130% the German car in terms of driving dynamics, 120% the German car in terms of sound (interior) and 200% of the sound on the exterior, 120% the German car in terms of ride quality (Magride 4.0 is amazing) and 70% of the cost.

Oh, it also has a better warranty and doesn't lose 50% of its value in 4 years along with some painful repair costs down the road which is great if you want to keep it long term.

If you don't care about what badge is on the hood and you don't plan to put winter tires on it and you are fully aware that the interior quality won't be as nice as an equivalent German car, you will not be disappointment (except maybe wanting more interior cabin exhaust noise).

See folks now this somebody who understands....I agree 100%