Absolute Dearth of All-Season Tires for CT5-V Blackwing

[Todd]

I think expectations of safely driving in cold, wet weather (not necessarily snow), is not unreasonable.

Again, this is a sedan with all the creature comforts (and weighing 4k lbs).

It doesn’t really fit the form factor of a weekend toy.

 

[1Evil55]

Why would Cadillac even consider offering a lower performing tire for their high performance vehicle?

Other, more on-the-ball manufacturers (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, etc.) have agreements with at least one major tire manufacturer to supply the correct size tires.



This is a pathetic situation that the owner of a vehicle that costs $100K+ should not have to deal with.

Only one option? Grounds for complaints.

A near 700hp car should not come with A/S tires ever IMO. Buying a performance vehicle deserves a performing tire, not a downgrade.

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

I think expectations of safely driving in cold, wet weather (not necessarily snow), is not unreasonable.

Again, this is a sedan with all the creature comforts (and weighing 4k lbs).

It doesn’t really fit the form factor of a weekend toy.

100% - it's odd that GM didn't work with a tiremaker for OEM fit A/S or Winters. Presumably because the famous GM bean counters decided the cost/benefit didn't pan out. I am not a tiremaker so I don't know if it would be a really expensive undertaking?

I live in California so in theory this shouldn't be a problem for me - but I live inland where in the winter our early morning temps can dip into the low 30's, especially in the canyons.

This time of year you see an uptick on social media of pictures of Porsche GT cars upside down in our canyons - presumably because they're out there ripping on their Cup 2s and PS4S first thing in the morning and don't know the limitations of their tires.

As for the performance argument, I do get it - it's probably pretty sketchy putting that power down on winters, but we do for some reason have a 'Snow/Ice' PTM mode, and the potential for daily drivability is supposed to be what a Super Sedan is for - otherwise dollar for dollar a Corvette is a much better performance vehicle.

I'm not rushing to sell my Blackwing or anything, I'm just addicted to it want to drive it all the time

 

[sonny200]

I just have a deposit down for a 5. What are the OEM tire sizes? Is it a square set up?

275/35/19 Front
305/30/19 Rear

 

[thefleshrocket]

I bought a set of the base shiny chrome looking factory wheels (my 5BW came with bronze wheels) and put a set of 275/35 and 305/30 Cooper RS3-G1s on it shortly after I got the car in early-mid 2023 for winter use. I didn't realize that the Coopers had been discontinued. They're easy to spin in second gear (6MT) and I've been beating up the rears.. guess I should dial it back if I can't get another set, since they'll go bald WAAAYYY before the fronts.

 

[hawk02]

I think expectations of safely driving in cold, wet weather (not necessarily snow), is not unreasonable.

Again, this is a sedan with all the creature comforts (and weighing 4k lbs).

It doesn’t really fit the form factor of a weekend toy.

While the 5BW has four doors, it's still marketed as a High-Performance sedan and high-performance and certain weather conditions don't necessarily mix. Cadillac offers the CT5-V with an AWD option and all-season tires. For those who live in colder climates that may be the better choice for a daily driver.

The Blackwing's performance increase and track capabilities automatically make it more of a weekend toy regardless of the number of doors to has.

 

[Todd]

While the 5BW has four doors, it's still marketed as a High-Performance sedan and high-performance and certain weather conditions don't necessarily mix. Cadillac offers the CT5-V with an AWD option and all-season tires. For those who live in colder climates that may be the better choice for a daily driver.

The Blackwing's performance increase and track capabilities automatically make it more of a weekend toy regardless of the number of doors to has.

Yet somehow BMW, Audi, and Mercedes can claim the same status and give us the best of both worlds. High Performance with the practicality of a daily driver.

As previously stated here, if you’re looking just for high performance, there are much better vehicle value propositions.

The value proposition of a “high performance sedan” is the combination of high performance and practicality.

Really, all they needed was an A/S tire spec to achieve that. So close!

 

[sonny200]

Michelin ZPs (Zero Pressure) are run-flat tires, which are absolutely horrible.

They are horrible compared to?

I currently have >37k miles on my 5BW that I bought new in Jan 2023. Therefore, I drive A LOT. Whatever trade off I have in the Michelin A/S vs the OEM tire is worth it to me because of all the rain I experience in the North Carolina Triangle area. The OEM tires were absolutely sketchy in even moderate rain. Was doing 85mph the other day in a pretty heavy downpour without any drama whatsoever whereas on the OEM tire, I'd be doing 65mph on the same stretch of highway.

I guess, as someone with experience as a racer & advanced DE since 1998, I've learned to compromise/adapt to different vehicle set-ups to maximize usage. I realize most people are not like me. So, I understand the OP's frustration but feel there are acceptable work-arounds -- like going to a set-up like what I have now.

If you don't like the Michelins, I believe Toyo also makes an A/S tire in 325/30/19 & 275/35/19.

 

[thefleshrocket]

I did some Googling for 305 30 19 all season tires and found the Lexani LX20, which is available in 275/35R19 and 305/30R19. https://www.prioritytire.com/by-brand/lexani-tires/lx-twenty?var-lexani=170630& They are, presumably, Chinese-made so I don't know how comfortable you feel about putting bottom-dollar tires from a country whose government will probably chuckle unders its breath if its products kill American citizens, but these fit the bill of "all season" and "available in the factory sizes".

To be fair, the Cooper RS3-G1 (which is what I'm running on my "cold-weather wheels") is a pretty terrible tire from a performance perspective. The steering response is way worse than the factory PS4S, overall grip is much lower, and they just generally feel like touring tires, not sport tires. The Lexanis probably won't be much worse, and they're so cheap that if they do suck, it hopefully won't break the bank to throw them in the trash. Honestly, unless a better option becomes available, I'll probably try the Lexanis once the Coopers are shot.

EDIT - more factory-sized options available on prioritytire.com - the Fortune Viento. Priced comparably to the Lexani, and probably also made in China. https://www.prioritytire.com/by-brand/fortune-tires/viento-fsr702?var-fortune=112447&
Lionheart LH-5 https://www.prioritytire.com/by-brand/lionhart-tires/lh-five?var-lionhart=115104&
Roadclaw EX30 https://www.prioritytire.com/by-brand/road-claw-tires/ex30?var-road-claw=38598

 

[CleanSheet]

I asked the parts department of my local Cadillac dealer about this and they said they have never done it. I live in New York and was planning to trade my M4 for a 5 blackwing but this could be a deal killer.

 

[CB34]

GM Sends out press cars with winter tires - they do not have 305's on the back. I have to go back to some of the YT videos to see what they outfitted the cars with - I think they were Sottozeros with 285's.

Edit:
There are the tires GM sends their press cars out with: Pirelli Sottozero Winter Tires: 275/35R19 (F), 295/30R19 (R)

I've used the Sottozeros on a 6th Gen Camaro - don't expect these to be snow beasts. They allow you to drive with 90%+ of the performance in cold and wet weather. Once you get decent snow accumulation, it's a crap shoot.

 

[hawk02]

Yet somehow BMW, Audi, and Mercedes can claim the same status and give us the best of both worlds. High Performance with the practicality of a daily driver.

As previously stated here, if you’re looking just for high performance, there are much better vehicle value propositions.

The value proposition of a “high performance sedan” is the combination of high performance and practicality.

Really, all they needed was an A/S tire spec to achieve that. So close!

Don't quote me, but aren't the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes AWD?

All-season or winter tires on a 670 HP rear-wheel driven car will only provide the ability to drive in colder temperatures. In freezing rain or more than an inch of snow, those tires aren't going to be any better than the PS4S when it comes to traction. I wouldn't consider it safe to drive a 5BW under those conditions no matter what kind of tire was on the car.

 

[hawk02]

GM Sends out press cars with winter tires - they do not have 305's on the back. I have to go back to some of the YT videos to see what they outfitted the cars with - I think they were Sottozeros with 285's.

Edit:
There are the tires GM sends their press cars out with: Pirelli Sottozero Winter Tires: 275/35R19 (F), 295/30R19 (R)

I've used the Sottozeros on a 6th Gen Camaro - don't expect these to be snow beasts. They allow you to drive with 90%+ of the performance in cold and wet weather. Once you get decent snow accumulation, it's a crap shoot.

When I had my 2013 Camaro ZL1 I used to put Sottozeros on it during the winter. I got caught once driving home from a performance shop in 2-3 inches of snow. It had started snowing while the car was at the shop.

It was a white-knuckle affair all the way home. Every time I gave the ZL1 a little gas the backend would start to come around. I'm sure it would have been far worse with the factory Goodyears. But the Sottozeroes were not great in the snow either. All the Sottozeros did was allow me to drive the ZL1 in temps below 40 degrees. They certainly didn't make my ZL1 any closer to a daily driver during the winter months in Ohio.

 

[Todd]

Don't quote me, but aren't the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes AWD?

All-season or winter tires on a 670 HP rear-wheel driven car will only provide the ability to drive in colder temperatures. In freezing rain or more than an inch of snow, those tires aren't going to be any better than the PS4S when it comes to traction. I wouldn't consider it safe to drive a 5BW under those conditions no matter what kind of tire was on the car.

Some models are AWD, some are not. Some have switchable AWD/RWD.

The point is: a set of A/S tires allows the BW to fully deliver on its sedan promises.

If warm, dry condition driving is the limiting factor of safely driving this car, why compromise with the form and weight of a sedan, just get a dedicated sports car.

 

[CB34]

When I had my 2013 Camaro ZL1 I used to put Sottozeros on it during the winter. I got caught once driving home from a performance shop in 2-3 inches of snow. It had started snowing while the car was at the shop.

It was a white-knuckle affair all the way home. Every time I gave the ZL1 a little gas the backend would start to come around. I'm sure it would have been far worse with the factory Goodyears. But the Sottozeroes were not great in the snow either. All the Sottozeros did was allow me to drive the ZL1 in temps below 40 degrees. They certainly didn't make my ZL1 any closer to a daily driver during the winter months in Ohio.

My Dad has a 2014 ZL1 - I wouldn't trust those Goodyears in the rain on a summer day let alone the snow. Those were quickly swapped out for PSS's at the time.

But in general I agree about the Sottozero's - they are by no means a snow tire. The driver in that YT video did surprisingly well with them but traction from a complete stop will always be an issue.

 

[dtuna42]

Not sure about the CT5V specs, but michelin pliot sports apline A/S 3+ works for by CT4V, and they are great all seasons.

I have Continental DWS-06 all seasons for winter, which when relatively new, are fairly decent in light snow, and are excellent in rain. Oddly, the TireRack search engine does not show them, but if you just look up that tire, they make both sizes for the CT4-V Blackwing. I'd love to get some winter tires that fit, they just don't seem to exist, at least not in US.

 

[T.O.Blackwing]

What's your winter tire setup? If I have to do that – and can – I just might.

 

[T.O.Blackwing]

All-season or winter tires on a 670 HP rear-wheel driven car will only provide the ability to drive in colder temperatures. In freezing rain or more than an inch of snow, those tires aren't going to be any better than the PS4S when it comes to traction.

Respectfully, that may be somewhat true when it comes to all seasons, but it is completely and utterly incorrect in respect of winter tires.
Those conditions are precisely what winter tires are designed for, and the reason people buy them for their cars, whether they drive Tercels or 911s.

 

[hawk02]

Some models are AWD, some are not. Some have switchable AWD/RWD.

The point is: a set of A/S tires allows the BW to fully deliver on its sedan promises.

If warm, dry condition driving is the limiting factor of safely driving this car, why compromise with the form and weight of a sedan, just get a dedicated sports car.

No, the point of the Blackwing is to provide the MAXIMUM performance possible from a four-door sedan within a given price range. This can only be achieved with a summer-only tire. If You want a four-season season sedan, Cadillac will gladly sell you a CT5-V.

Respectfully, that may be somewhat true when it comes to all seasons, but it is completely and utterly incorrect in respect of winter tires.
Those conditions are precisely what winter tires are designed for, and the reason people buy them for their cars, whether they drive Tercels or 911s.

See post 33, where I describe driving a 580 HP rear-wheel-drive Camaro ZL1 in 2-3 inches of snow on Pirelli Sottozero high-performance "Winter" tires. The traction sucked! Call me a little skeptical that a true winter tire on a 670 HP rear-wheel sedan will be any better.

 

[BimmerFan]

I can't find much with Google, but it looks like around 1800 CT5V-BW were produced in model year 2022. If we keep the math simple and presume 2000 for 2023 and 2024, then that's 6000 cars made so far.

Assume that (from what I read here) the average owner drives 5000 miles a year, and that half of them live in snowy/cold states, and of that, half are willing to drive in the salt, then you've got only 1500 potential customers...

Screw that. Let's say all 6000 owners want to buy all season tires. That's 12,000 front tires, and 12,000 rears. And let's say that these 6000 owners drive their cars more than we do, and so every three years they're buying another set of tires. So that's 4000 tires (in each size) sold each year.

You can't blame GM, or Michelin, or anyone else. No company is going to make a new mold and go through all of the testing and certifications required to sell a lousy 4000 tires a year without a guarantee of sales (as they likely get from the manufacturer). And that was me being optimistic, the reality is likely less than half of that.

Now, when my PS4S tires need replacing, yes, I'd prefer to put A/S on it, as @sonny200 mentioned (we're neighbors) we get a lot of rain here, and it does get chilly (heck, it will be 22 degrees tomorrow morning). So I'm all in favor of a good solution, preferably not RF. But I'm not going to blame Cadillac for it.