CT4-V Blackwing vs CT5-V Blackwing

[Barstoolman1127]

Does anyone have access to any real numbers on these two vehicles going to head to head on a track, let’s say Spring Mountain? Would love to see a head-to-head competition, one with the A10s going against each other and one with the M6s….Cheers!!

 

[MattH]

Does anyone have access to any real numbers on these two vehicles going to head to head on a track, let’s say Spring Mountain? Would love to see a head-to-head competition, one with the A10s going against each other and one with the M6s….Cheers!!

Heres a good article, the 5 was about 6 seconds quicker around VIR.

Lightning Lap 2022: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track

Performance cars (and SUVs) put in bravura performances at Virginia International Raceway—this year including the BMW M3, Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, Mercedes-AMG GT, Subaru BRZ, and many more.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

Heres a good article, the 5 was about 6 seconds quicker around VIR.

Lightning Lap 2022: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track

Performance cars (and SUVs) put in bravura performances at Virginia International Raceway—this year including the BMW M3, Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, Mercedes-AMG GT, Subaru BRZ, and many more.

www.caranddriver.com

They admitted to leaving time on the table with the 4 after getting spooked going off with it earlier.

 

[Ivy1Le]

They admitted to leaving time on the table with the 4 after getting spooked going off with it earlier.

I'd be willing to put money on it that the 4 would be within 1 second of the 5 in a tight technical track. Any long straights and the 5 is going to do what SC V8 motors do lol

 

[Blackwing61]

I'd be willing to put money on it that the 4 would be within 1 second of the 5 in a tight technical track. Any long straights and the 5 is going to do what SC V8 motors do lol

Yes, at least for me at Spring Mountain. I was grouped with an 4 and the tight sections the 4 did great and in the straights the 5 pulled away big time.

The C8s are there also and on the Cadi track the 5V beats the C8 according to the instructors.

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I'd be willing to put money on it that the 4 would be within 1 second of the 5 in a tight technical track. Any long straights and the 5 is going to do what SC V8 motors do lol

Absolutely. HP is HP.

 

[Barstoolman1127]

Heres a good article, the 5 was about 6 seconds quicker around VIR.

Lightning Lap 2022: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track

Performance cars (and SUVs) put in bravura performances at Virginia International Raceway—this year including the BMW M3, Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, Mercedes-AMG GT, Subaru BRZ, and many more.

www.caranddriver.com

Appreciate the quick response. Sounds like most of the time difference was in due to some bad driving rather than the performance of the vehicle. I would imagine that the difference on a track would not be that great providing the drivers were of equal ability

 

[NorCal Blackwing]

On most tracks the main determinant for the lap time is power... more power, shorter time. However, if I'm looking for a track car for non-competitive DE's it's arguably more important how fun and engaging the car is to drive

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I also bet Mirza has the answer.

 

[Throat Yogurt]

Appreciate the quick response. Sounds like most of the time difference was in due to some bad driving rather than the performance of the vehicle. I would imagine that the difference on a track would not be that great providing the drivers were of equal ability

No. Most of the time difference is due to the ~200 HP spread between the two cars. The difference on a track will definitely be large even with equal drivers. The only time you would see even close to parity with the two cars would be at something like an autocross course, and even then I bet the 5BW would have the upper hand.

C&D maybe left a few 10ths on the track.

 

[Berserker]

These are the the 2022 Lightning Lap times for the non-SUV-ish vehicles. They're in lap time order, with the vehicles' weight-to-power ratio right next to it.

Except for a few outliers, ordering it by lb/hp would be pretty much the same list.

(The major outliers include the Lexus IS500, which is 9 seconds a lap slower than the CT4-V BW despite having identical horsepower and almost the same power to weight. And both Porsches are quite a bit faster than vehicles with similar power to weight ratios.)

• 3:12.4 - 12.5 lb/hp - BRZ Limited
• 3:12.1 - 13.7 lb/hp - Golf GTI
• 3:11.8 - 12.4 lb/hp - GT86 Premium
• 3:06.7 - 11.8 lb/hp - TLX Type-S SH-AWD
• 3:04.9 - 8.4 lb/hp - IS500 F Sport Peformance
• 3:04.3 - 10.7 lb/hp - Golf R
• 3:03.0 - 10.1 lb/hp - M240i XDrive
• 3:00.7 - 10.1 lb/hp - Civic Type R
• 2:55.6 - 8.3 lb/hp - CT4-V Blackwing
• 2:53.5 - 7.8 lb/hp - M3 Comp XDrive
• 2:51.4 - 7.9 lb/hp - Mustang Mach 1
• 2:50.3 - 6.6 lb/hp - M5 CS
• 2:49.4 - 6.2 lb/hp - CT5-V Blackwing
• 2:47.8 - 7.6 lb/hp - Panamera Turbo S
• 2:40.6 - 6.4 lb/hp - 911 GT3
• 2:37.0 - 5.0 lb/hp - AMG GT Black Series

 

[Finally-a-V]

Another issue, if I remember right without rereading the article, were tires. Some manufacturers did not send extra tires, so C/D only got a few laps in. Those who sent multiple pairs were able to do many laps, with different drivers. They of course, take the fastest lap. So, more laps and more drivers, in theory, should lead to possible faster laps.

 

[Rich]

at the v academy the course the use isnt a high speed course
and the 5 consistantly pulled away from the fastest driver in the 4

 

[Barstoolman1127]

Would be interesting on “The Streets at Willow” or “The Horse Thief Mile”……I can see the 5 BW blowing away the 4 on “Big Willow”

 

[668LT4]

I bought a 4 as I await a (hopefully) 2023 5. I want the low end grunt of the V8. The numbers on the 4 are impressive, and it is a fun, nimble car to drive. But the one I want to keep forever is the 5.

 

[Tall Steve]

I know it's because I'm a bad driver but when I was at Spring Mountain my instructor was in a 4 BW while I was in a 5 BW and "SHE" pulled my behind around that track telling me to "come on", lol Damn she was fast!

 

[dstewart51]

Would be interesting on “The Streets at Willow” or “The Horse Thief Mile”……I can see the 5 BW blowing away the 4 on “Big Willow”

I raced Big Willow for 5 years, every month, three days a month with WSMC from 2007-2012. If I never step foot on that track again I will live happily. I could run very similar lap times, 1:25.6's on my 1000cc bike as well as my 600cc bike on Big Willow. The diferance was where I made up time between handling/breaking vs power.

Smaller, lighter with more manageable power is always easier to drive, and for most of us who are not track specialists = faster lap times. The larger heavy cars with more power are usually faster even on tight tracks but only with a very competent and experienced driver.

 

[Finally-a-V]

I bought a 4 as I await a (hopefully) 2023 5. I want the low end grunt of the V8. The numbers on the 4 are impressive, and it is a fun, nimble car to drive. But the one I want to keep forever is the 5.

Exactly. My thoughts too. I might wait until 2024, hoping the CF issues clear up.

 

[Berserker]

I checked out the Lightning Lap videos for the CT4 and CT5, from the start of the lap through T16.

The CT4 carried more speed through every slow corner except Oak Tree, where the two cars tied. The slow speed corner delta was 1-to-4 mph in favor of the CT4. The CT5 was faster on the straights - a lot faster. Speed deltas in the short chutes between corners were 3-6 mph in favor of the CT5; on the longer straights the CT5 was 12-16 mph faster.

It looks like the CT5's speed in the short chutes is all by itself enough to offset the slower cornering speed. In the twisty bit of the track from the final marker for T1 through the turn in for T5, the CT5 was about 0.25 seconds faster despite being slower in every corner (the CT4 did that section in 29.53; CT5 in 29.26). And then on the straights the CT5 just piled the hurt on.

The CT5 looked like it was more work to drive. At the end of the back straight while turning in for T13, the driver was literally begging the car to slow down.

WHERE	CT4	CT5	CT4 minus CT5
Vmin T1	46	45	1
Vmin T3	63	61	2
Vmin T4	47	46	1
Vmin T5a	70	67	3
Vmin T10	90	87	3
Vmin Oak Tree	44	44	0
Vmin T13	39	35	4
Vmin T15a-b	52	48	4
Vmin T16	44	43	1

WHERE	CT4	CT5	CT4 minus CT5
Start/Finish	134	146	-12
Vmax T1 - T3	98	101	-3
Vmax T3 - T4	88	91	-3
Bridge	118	131	-13
Vmax Back Straight	134	150	-16
Vmax T13 - T15	106	112	-6

 

[Jameson's Viggen]

I checked out the Lightning Lap videos for the CT4 and CT5, from the start of the lap through T16.

The CT4 carried more speed through every slow corner except Oak Tree, where the two cars tied. The slow speed corner delta was 1-to-4 mph in favor of the CT4. The CT5 was faster on the straights - a lot faster. Speed deltas in the short chutes between corners were 3-6 mph in favor of the CT5; on the longer straights the CT5 was 12-16 mph faster.

It looks like the CT5's speed in the short chutes is all by itself enough to offset the slower cornering speed. In the twisty bit of the track from the final marker for T1 through the turn in for T5, the CT5 was about 0.25 seconds faster despite being slower in every corner. And then on the straights the CT5 just piled the hurt on.

CT5 looked like it was more work to drive. At the end of the back straight while turning in for T13, the driver was literally begging the car to slow down.

WHERE	CT4	CT5	CT4 minus CT5
Vmin T1	46	45	1
Vmin T3	63	61	2
Vmin T4	47	46	1
Vmin T5a	70	67	3
Vmin T10	90	87	3
Vmin Oak Tree	44	44	0
Vmin T13	39	35	4
Vmin T15a-b	52	48	4
Vmin T16	44	43	1

WHERE	CT4	CT5	CT4 minus CT5
Start/Finish	134	146	-12
Vmax T1 - T3	98	101	-3
Vmax T3 - T4	88	91	-3
Bridge	118	131	-13
Vmax Back Straight	134	150	-16
Vmax T13 - T15	106	112	-6

A CT4 with another 100whp will be the sweet spot lol