Clutch break-in

[ipokethebear]

Hi folks. I have a 5BW 6MT with about 1k miles on the clock and was wondering what’s the usual break-in duration and change in feel for the clutch (if any)?

Around the 600-700 mile mark, I noticed the initial sharp bite was gone. When it was brand new, it felt like barely lifting the clutch pedal off the floor caused it to start to bite. After 600-700 or so miles, that initial-bite point moved back just a hair. Just to clarify, the clutch is not slipping or anything like that. It’s just that the initial engagement point has moved a small bit. I actually like it being a little further back and a little more forgiving, but is this normal break-in-related wear, or was my clutch worn faster than expected?

I’ve been driving a stick all my life, but I haven’t ever owned a brand new car with a TR6060 and wasn’t sure what the wear pattern was. The car was in at the dealer for service due to some electrical gremlin, and they drove it about 50 miles in the week it was there. When I got it back was when I remember noticing the slight difference, but I also can’t remember if that sharp bite was still there when I dropped it off, so I also can’t for sure say the change happened while they had the car.

My wife also tells me I overthink things (she adds an eye roll), so I wanted to reach out and see what the general thought is on clutch wearing for these Blackwings. Does it seem like normal wear, or does it sound like somebody had too much fun or didn’t know what they were doing? Thanks!

 

[jbawden]

I think you're fine. The 6060 is very robust and not sure there are any established clutch material wear trends. Many of us here had a Chevy SS prior (also had the 6060) to the BW and the clutch engagement is a bit industrial feeling, but I dig it.

 

[raptor5244]

The TR6060 feels a little more refined in my 4BW compared to the Camaros and Corvettes I have owned but I chalk that up to the little extra NVH treatment the Cadillacs get.

 

[ipokethebear]

I think you're fine. The 6060 is very robust and not sure there are any established clutch material wear trends. Many of us here had a Chevy SS prior (also had the 6060) to the BW and the clutch engagement is a bit industrial feeling, but I dig it.

Hah! That gif pretty-much sums up what I’m often told Thanks for the input!

On a side note, the SS is one of the cars that I consider “one that got away”. I always really wanted one but never made it happen.

 

[ipokethebear]

The TR6060 feels a little more refined in my 4BW compared to the Camaros and Corvettes I have owned but I chalk that up to the little extra NVH treatment the Cadillacs get.

Ah, thats good to hear. I expected the clutch to always feel a bit sharp and heavy due to how stout it is, so it threw me off that it seems to have “broken in” to a smoother and more forgiving engagement. That or I got used to it without noticing and I am just overthinking it Thanks a lot for your two cents as well!

 

[Champale]

Or the dealership did those 50 miles one quarter of a mile at a time at the local dragstrip . . .

I'm kidding! Just drive it and if something goes wrong, your warranty will take care of it.

 

[ipokethebear]

Or the dealership did those 50 miles one quarter of a mile at a time at the local dragstrip . . .

I'm kidding! Just drive it and if something goes wrong, your warranty will take care of it.

New fear unlocked…

Actually, if they launched 200 times and a slight bite-point shift is all that happened, I’d say that’s proof enough for me of the robustness of the TR6060

 

[SS_Shooter]

This new V has an excellent, mild-mannered clutch. Easy to get a smooth release from a stop with minimal throttle, minimal slip. Or if you use more throttle for an aggressive launch, it's easy to fade it the clutch like you want. After 3K miles, mine seems to be a little less sensitive that it was Day 1, but it could just be that I've gotten used to it.

As I recall, my 2010 V2 clutch took real effort to get a nice, clean release while leaving stoplights in daily driving - it would get a little grabby or clunky on you. It was either: a) leave with zero throttle and almost stall it; or b) rev it to 2,500 rpms and slip it quite a bit during release.

If you are trying to teach someone how to drive a manual, this new V would be great because they can just release the clutch slowly (without adding ANY throttle) and the car won't stall...

 

[ipokethebear]

This new V has an excellent, mild-mannered clutch. Easy to get a smooth release from a stop with minimal throttle, minimal slip. Or if you use more throttle for an aggressive launch, it's easy to fade it the clutch like you want. After 3K miles, mine seems to be a little less sensitive that it was Day 1, but it could just be that I've gotten used to it.

As I recall, my 2010 V2 clutch took real effort to get a nice, clean release while leaving stoplights in daily driving - it would get a little grabby or clunky on you. It was either: a) leave with zero throttle and almost stall it; or b) rev it to 2,500 rpms and slip it quite a bit during release.

If you are trying to teach someone how to drive a manual, this new V would be great because they can just release the clutch slowly (without adding ANY throttle) and the car won't stall...

Man, I swear my clutch initially felt a little more like how you describe your V2. It seemed like just barely releasing it a bit off the floor caused some bite, and I recall having to give it some gas while starting from a stop because it would seem to threaten to stall. I didn’t have to give it much gas (I could keep it around 800-1k rpm), but it didn’t feel like I could give it zero gas. I came across a single review online where somebody said something similar.

Now, pretty much all other reviews, along with the people replying to this thread, agree with what you’re saying and talk about how smooth and refined it is. Unless there’s some variance in the early feel of these Blackwing clutches, me and that one other review I mentioned simply weren’t used to it (this seems much more likely to me). I bet it was in my head and now I’m just used to it so it feels different.

In any case, my clutch now definitely feels like how you describe the current Blackwings. So I’m no longer worried about any excessive wear or anything like that, but I’m a little curious as to why it seemed different initially. I guess I won’t lose sleep over it and will just chalk it up to me getting used to it. Thanks a lot for your input!

 

[raptor5244]

Man, I swear my clutch initially felt a little more like how you describe your V2. It seemed like just barely releasing it a bit off the floor caused some bite, and I recall having to give it some gas while starting from a stop because it would seem to threaten to stall. I didn’t have to give it much gas (I could keep it around 800-1k rpm), but it didn’t feel like I could give it zero gas. I came across a single review online where somebody said something similar.

Now, pretty much all other reviews, along with the people replying to this thread, agree with what you’re saying and talk about how smooth and refined it is. Unless there’s some variance in the early feel of these Blackwing clutches, me and that one other review I mentioned simply weren’t used to it (this seems much more likely to me). I bet it was in my head and now I’m just used to it so it feels different.

In any case, my clutch now definitely feels like how you describe the current Blackwings. So I’m no longer worried about any excessive wear or anything like that, but I’m a little curious as to why it seemed different initially. I guess I won’t lose sleep over it and will just chalk it up to me getting used to it. Thanks a lot for your input!

The reason you can let the clutch out slow and not stall on the Blackwings is because they tuned it so the rpm will automatically increase as you release the clutch. To see it in action, just slowly start to release the clutch without touching the gas and as you reach the grab point you will see the rpm increase a few hundred rpm to help prevent stalling and assist in smoother engagement.

The latest ND Miatas have the same programming. It is not really necessary if you know how to drive a manual transmission but it is a nice feature, same for the hill start assist feature, which auto applies e-brake if the sensor detects a certain amount of grade.

 

[bloominguez]

The reason you can let the clutch out slow and not stall on the Blackwings is because they tuned it so the rpm will automatically increase as you release the clutch. To see it in action, just slowly start to release the clutch without touching the gas and as you reach the grab point you will see the rpm increase a few hundred rpm to help prevent stalling and assist in smoother engagement.

The latest ND Miatas have the same programming. It is not really necessary if you know how to drive a manual transmission but it is a nice feature, same for the hill start assist feature, which auto applies e-brake if the sensor detects a certain amount of grade.

This feature seems to be showing up on lots of cars with manual transmissions. Also on my Bronco. The car adds some throttle on its own if it senses stalling, if you're close to getting it right. Not so much that you couldn't still stall it if you're way off, though.

I actually don't like this feature for one narrow reason: It makes teaching someone a little more difficult. One of the things I do when teaching someone to drive a manual is showing them how you can get the car moving without ever touching the gas pedal, if you're slow and gentle with the clutch. This mainly works on cars with enough power, of course (unless you really want to slip the clutch, I suppose, which I don't). But you can always find a parking lot with a very slight slope and do this pointing the car downhill, making it easier.

Basically I try to separate the "get a feel for the clutch" from the "add just the right amount of gas" parts of the equation. Do just the former and forget about the latter. Really helps, I've found. Anyway, this "automatically add a little gas if stalling is sensed" gets in the way of this teaching technique.

 

[Roadhawk]

Both my boys cursed me when I taught them to drive on our MT BMW ZHP. Now they are grateful for knowing how to drive manual and comment what a great and easy MT the ZHP has. Only my eldest has driven the 4 BW and he loved the clutch feel but did stall a few times as he said it resembles the clutch feel in his Honda Fit but with a different engagement point.

I find the clutch feel excellent (and easy) - bur I've now stalled twice pulling out while not giving it any gas. I'll keep my eye out for this throttle feature....hadn't noticed.

 

[raptor5244]

This feature seems to be showing up on lots of cars with manual transmissions. Also on my Bronco. The car adds some throttle on its own if it senses stalling, if you're close to getting it right. Not so much that you couldn't still stall it if you're way off, though.

I actually don't like this feature for one narrow reason: It makes teaching someone a little more difficult. One of the things I do when teaching someone to drive a manual is showing them how you can get the car moving without ever touching the gas pedal, if you're slow and gentle with the clutch. This mainly works on cars with enough power, of course (unless you really want to slip the clutch, I suppose, which I don't). But you can always find a parking lot with a very slight slope and do this pointing the car downhill, making it easier.

Basically I try to separate the "get a feel for the clutch" from the "add just the right amount of gas" parts of the equation. Do just the former and forget about the latter. Really helps, I've found. Anyway, this "automatically add a little gas if stalling is sensed" gets in the way of this teaching technique.

Agreed. The 5BW tall 1st gear benefits from this feature. The M6 on the ZL1 with the same gearing does not have it and you will see many complaints about getting it moving from a stop. You have to finesse it just right or you will bog. This was the main reason I went with the A10 in the ZL1. The tall gearing is annoying and it bogs pretty bad if you try to launch it. It sounds like the fixed it all on the 5BW.

The Camaro SS and 4BWs Tremecs M6s are geared lower and don't suffer from this issue.