Michelin PS4S issue

[XjonesX]

Would love to see the alignment results, as it seems we have a small epidemic. I wonder if the tires are bad...

well...., there does seem to be a common denominator it looks like. I mean..., I'd lean towards the tires, because I'm seeing a lot of the same inner wear issue. However, why does it seem to be located in the same area of almost all these tire? Does that allude to a suspension issue with the BW? Mine was the front left tire. Never pulled when going up the road, as a matter of fact, I could take my hands off the wheel, and it would track true straight ahead.
Once I get my alignment done, I will report back on what they found.
Presently my BW has been sitting at the dealer for a week and a half because of brakes issues.

A) It needed new brakes after 21,000 miles, and apparently there is a several week backlog at GM dealers for brembo OEM brake pads.
B) I wound up purchasing KNS pads so I could get my car back, however when I received them yesterday, while the correct brake pads...., they didn't have the cut out notch for the brake sensor.
Their web site said these were a correct fit for my BW, but didn't say anything about the sensor notch.

I digress...., My next set of summer tires will be something different than the Pilots. I was never really overthrawled about them anyhow.
They just didn't seem to have enough stick to the road ability, and a lot of times were just slick on the road...., ice skates.
However, tire rack seems to list them as one of their better tires on their site.
Does anyone know what other vehicle (manufacture) uses pilots as their OEM tires? Do these folks have toe in issues that cause this kind of wear, or is it actually maybe the tire quality itself?

Also, back to the brake issue...., Here are a couple of photos showing the OEM, and KNS brake pad difference without the sensor hole.

 

[rdollie]

Aha, just stumbled across a video showing this tire issue with Taycans, Teslas, etc. It's due to excess negative camber(start around 4:15):

The reason I haven't seen this on the replacement tires is probably because I followed up the install with an alignment.

 

[conipc]

It would seem the issue may be a combination of excess toe AND excess negative camber. Those 2 together might encourage that inner tire wear. I I think the toe should be around .1 and the camber 1.00 for lower end of the range...

 

[poor-sha]

The toe was out on the front drivers side which is the photo i attached, however the passenger side front tire was almost as bad.

I don’t think that .28 deg vs .19 deg total toe is going materially affe t tire wear. The left to right difference is just how straight the steering wheel is.

 

[conipc]

True, but I think in combination with the camber at the high end of the correct range, we may see a cause. I've asked the Service Manager and my salesman to move this epidemic up the line with Cadillac and tire folks. Sent them a link to this thread. The tire folks should know if there are other cars seeing this. I noted the Porsche mechanic info in this thread to the effect the camber is too negative in the Taycan and some Teslas. Would be interesting to see if the higher-ups do some investigating..

 

[pkincy]

well...., there does seem to be a common denominator it looks like. I mean..., I'd lean towards the tires, because I'm seeing a lot of the same inner wear issue. However, why does it seem to be located in the same area of almost all these tire? Does that allude to a suspension issue with the BW? Mine was the front left tire. Never pulled when going up the road, as a matter of fact, I could take my hands off the wheel, and it would track true straight ahead.
Once I get my alignment done, I will report back on what they found.
Presently my BW has been sitting at the dealer for a week and a half because of brakes issues.

A) It needed new brakes after 21,000 miles, and apparently there is a several week backlog at GM dealers for brembo OEM brake pads.
B) I wound up purchasing KNS pads so I could get my car back, however when I received them yesterday, while the correct brake pads...., they didn't have the cut out notch for the brake sensor.
Their web site said these were a correct fit for my BW, but didn't say anything about the sensor notch.

I digress...., My next set of summer tires will be something different than the Pilots. I was never really overthrawled about them anyhow.
They just didn't seem to have enough stick to the road ability, and a lot of times were just slick on the road...., ice skates.
However, tire rack seems to list them as one of their better tires on their site.
Does anyone know what other vehicle (manufacture) uses pilots as their OEM tires? Do these folks have toe in issues that cause this kind of wear, or is it actually maybe the tire quality itself?

Also, back to the brake issue...., Here are a couple of photos showing the OEM, and KNS brake pad difference without the sensor hole.
View attachment 28220View attachment 28221
View attachment 28220

Just use the ones you bought and zip tie off the sensor. Many of our replacement pads don't yet have the sensor cutout.

 

[beamon]

I had the same experience new from factory in that center marker on steering wheel was slightly left of center going straight. Local Cadillac dealer said let suspension settle in for 1500 miles before doing an alignment which was surprising as car pulls to right when steering wheel straight. Anyways, getting alignment this week and dealer said they will try to warranty it. Let’s see.

 

[Champale]

Very few cars that I have bought new have been aligned correctly from the factory. I seem to always need to get them tweaked within the first few weeks (I am a bit of a perfectionist plus I generally like slightly aggressive camber and toe).

In saying this, wearing down the inside edge of a tire on a high performance car is par for the course due to those same camber and toe settings that make the car such an amazing handler. Plus, the TPC PS4S is a stickier than normal version of the PS4S so the mileage won't be as good most likely. I currently have PS4S on 3 of my cars (including my 5BW) and have used them on other cars and find them to be absolutely superb for high performance driving.

 

[AC2024]

I dont find this type of wear abnormal at all. Y’all are aware you bought a performance car with soft summer rubber right? This is the exact same wear pattern youll see on most any similar vehicle. In fact i just did my winter changeover on my 335i and it almost looked exactly the same ((not as severe-inspect youre tires and rotate left to righ every 3-6k miles). The car runs aggressive neg camber (and its toe + camber that results in the inner shoulder aggressive wear) because its a track car.

You have 3 options:
1-buy all seasons and have no fun. Why did spend the money on this car to squid around?
2-dial out toe close to zero… this works in moderation but youll sacrifice some stability (if dialed out a bit of toe when i went to race spec camber setting)
3-budget for tires (this is the right answer). Anything above 10k for summer rubber is perfectly reasonable

Or option 4. Sell and buy a camry.

 

[BAD2U]

Glad you were able to live and post that pic. Unreal how it appears it just rolled off the wheel. Were you going around a bend at all or did it just walk off like that?

I was on vacation going straight when the rear started wobbling and I pulled over. Had Onstar get me a tow to a Cadillac Dealer. There I had a new Michelin put on.

Michelin​

 

[conipc]

Had an alignment check done on 5BW with 4700 miles and revealed significant anomalies in the settings. See the attachment which describes just the front. I'm not happy this wasn't caught and I do believe similar was and is responsible for my tire problems. I also learned that GM will pay for alignment anomalies in the first 7500 miles! so go get yours checked!!

 

[BimmerFan]

Had an alignment check done on 5BW with 4700 miles and revealed significant anomalies in the settings. See the attachment which describes just the front. I'm not happy this wasn't caught and I do believe similar was and is responsible for my tire problems. I also learned that GM will pay for alignment anomalies in the first 7500 miles! so go get yours checked!!

I presume that "GM will pay" only applies to the dealer doing it.

Most of what we see in this thread is alignment issues, most if not all of those are not tire failures.

Many (most?) BMW M cars come with Michelin PS4S as do several other performance cars. They are generally regarded as the best performing street tire, second perhaps to the Sport Cup, which is barely a street tire (it's a track tire with tread).

 

[Super Saloon]

I presume that "GM will pay" only applies to the dealer doing it.

Most of what we see in this thread is alignment issues, most if not all of those are not tire failures.

Many (most?) BMW M cars come with Michelin PS4S as do several other performance cars. They are generally regarded as the best performing street tire, second perhaps to the Sport Cup, which is barely a street tire (it's a track tire with tread).

Agreed. I have had PS4S on 3 different platforms now (Focus RS, 45 AMG, 4 BW) and it is a fantastic tire. The Cup 2’s are good for the track but downright dangerous for the street, it is essentially a slick on the outer half of the tire. I had them equipped from the factory on my RS and the car would start to slide going around corners in heavy rain under normal driving. I had to drive very carefully in the rain. They did not stay on the car long. Replaced them with the PS4S and was very happy.